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Re: Do you aknowledge the importance of dance music

Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 3:37 pm
by Automatic Gainsay
Syn303 wrote:I still wonder why this guide has listed Tangerine Dream under Ambient, when Edgar Froese insisted TD were a Rock Group? Because originally TD started out as Rock Group (The Ones/TD). Guitars and other conventional rock instruments are used throughout their albums.
What some people don't realize is that it is a great indication of the truth of a matter when Syn303 and I can agree on something. :)

Re: Do you aknowledge the importance of dance music

Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 3:40 pm
by Automatic Gainsay
Christopher Winkels wrote:Given that we all seem to be dancing about architecture, shall I call the next tune as a waltz about art deco or a tango about neo-classicism? :wink:
If we stop talking about music, we might just as well shut the forum down, don't you think? Or, at least rename it Dancing About Architecture Explorer. :wink:

Re: Do you aknowledge the importance of dance music

Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 5:01 pm
by Soundwave
Kraftwerk didn't invent electro (they did experimental synth pop) it was Afrike Baambaata who nicked the beat from Computer World with the melody of Trance Europe Express and put it in the context of the underground club music of Detroit which went down a storm. Kraftwerk didn't mind this too much as it brought more (free) exposure to them in the US than any promotion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit_Techno

In Chicago Frankie Knuckles started getting experimental to mix disco loops (like Morroder)in the underground and house music then acid music was formed as TB303's were then cheap and obsolete. http://www.bradley.edu/las/eng/lotm/Chi ... e-text.htm


Tangerine Dream/Shulze and other Berlin School Krautrock has had a noted sonic influence on what was called experimental 'Ambient Techno' artist like The Orb, FSOL, Irresistible Force and of course Pete Namlook.

Jarre's Oxygene was the cross over album from electronic experimental to the mainstream and his uplifting synth anthems draw a lot of parallels with Euro style 'Trance' as it's now known which many leading Trance artists have credited. Jarre also did some of the most innovative electronic music in the early-mid 80's if look past the token pop singles.


All in all it can be said that dance music today is by far the most mainstream widespread form of electronic music thats ever been which also covers endless sub genres and that it draws more influence from the experimental innovation of the 70's than the synth pop/rock fad of the 80's which was essentially the same old musical format done with electronic sounds instead of gutiar, organ ect to give it a new flavor.
The instrument design also showed this when you compare the modulars of the 70's and the revolutionary digital synths of the early 80's which then got washed down into a more commercially viable 'keyboard' package to your 'ten a penny' letterbox LCD ROMpler of the late 80's-early 90's.

Although the popular Moog bass has remained throughout mainstream music the TB303 was the happy little accident that woke everyone up and re addressed the balance manufactures leading the way sonically instead of the musicians. You just have to look at the massive influence that dance music culture (including ambient, IDM, glitch ect) has had on synth/software design from the mid 90's.

Re: Do you aknowledge the importance of dance music

Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 6:54 pm
by Yatmandu
In case people are still having problems with this concept: Ishkur's guide shows relationships between all the genres and subgenres, which are not necessarily "causal". I'd be glad to read/surf a better guide from any of you.

Re: Do you aknowledge the importance of dance music

Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 7:16 pm
by supermel74
Image

Re: Do you aknowledge the importance of dance music

Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 7:18 pm
by Soundwave
Plus it's about 10yrs out of date includes genres that don't even exist and misses out a lot of stuff. :lol:


IDM, Dubstep, Breakcore, Glitch, Neo Rave.......... ?

Re: Do you aknowledge the importance of dance music

Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 8:17 pm
by Christopher Winkels
Automatic Gainsay wrote:
Christopher Winkels wrote:Given that we all seem to be dancing about architecture, shall I call the next tune as a waltz about art deco or a tango about neo-classicism? :wink:
If we stop talking about music, we might just as well shut the forum down, don't you think? Or, at least rename it Dancing About Architecture Explorer. :wink:
Touché, good sir.

Re: Do you aknowledge the importance of dance music

Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 12:11 am
by Automatic Gainsay
Yatmandu wrote:In case people are still having problems with this concept: Ishkur's guide shows relationships between all the genres and subgenres, which are not necessarily "causal". I'd be glad to read/surf a better guide from any of you.
I am usually not this rude, but for the love of God, are you retarded? Are you reading my responses at all? I know they're long... perhaps I should transfer the name of "Automatic Gainsay" to you.
I didn't indicate that they were ALL causal, I took issue with the general structure, which demonstrates causality where there may not be or is not.

And don't give me "WELL, IT MAY BE TOTALLY SHITTY, BUT YOU CAN'T SAY IT'S SHITTY UNTIL YOU CAN DO BETTER" bullshit, it's a nonsensical argument and it's predicated upon the notion that no one can criticize anything without being able to do better... in which case, most people can't criticize anything. I can't bake a decent soufflé, but I can certainly tell when one tastes like s**t.
That being said, you're damn straight I could write a better history. It wouldn't included a lot of tiny (what I believe to be) made-up genres, but it would be accurate from a historical perspective and provide real, provable, accurate research.
You'll have to wait a bit. It'll be coming out on DVD.

Re: Do you aknowledge the importance of dance music

Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 12:13 am
by Automatic Gainsay
Christopher Winkels wrote:
Automatic Gainsay wrote:
Christopher Winkels wrote:Given that we all seem to be dancing about architecture, shall I call the next tune as a waltz about art deco or a tango about neo-classicism? :wink:
If we stop talking about music, we might just as well shut the forum down, don't you think? Or, at least rename it Dancing About Architecture Explorer. :wink:
Touché, good sir.
Well, touché in regard to your original statement... I do tend to get bogged down in arguing about minutiae!

Re: Do you aknowledge the importance of dance music

Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 3:00 am
by Yatmandu
Automatic Gainsay wrote:
Yatmandu wrote:In case people are still having problems with this concept: Ishkur's guide shows relationships between all the genres and subgenres, which are not necessarily "causal". I'd be glad to read/surf a better guide from any of you.
I am usually not this rude, but for the love of God, are you retarded? Are you reading my responses at all? I know they're long... perhaps I should transfer the name of "Automatic Gainsay" to you.
:lol:
I didn't indicate that they were ALL causal, I took issue with the general structure, which demonstrates causality where there may not be or is not.

And don't give me "WELL, IT MAY BE TOTALLY SHITTY, BUT YOU CAN'T SAY IT'S SHITTY UNTIL YOU CAN DO BETTER" bullshit, it's a nonsensical argument and it's predicated upon the notion that no one can criticize anything without being able to do better... in which case, most people can't criticize anything. I can't bake a decent soufflé, but I can certainly tell when one tastes like s**t.
That being said, you're damn straight I could write a better history. It wouldn't included a lot of tiny (what I believe to be) made-up genres, but it would be accurate from a historical perspective and provide real, provable, accurate research.
You'll have to wait a bit. It'll be coming out on DVD.
I've heard of every single sub-genre in there at one point or another. Someone else complained he didn't cover enough genres, missing out on IDM and a few others. Which is it folks? For the record, I hate the acronym "IDM" even though I like a lot of artists that fall under it. It's too generic and says nothing about the music, other than it's not 4/4 mindless club music.

I think he ties in the various styles of electronic music rather nicely with examples of each and every one. If I want a historical account of techno I'll go read one of the several books out there, covering early Detroit techno and the UK rave scenes. If you come out with a DVD on the subject, let me know.

Re: Do you aknowledge the importance of dance music

Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 3:03 am
by Yatmandu
supermel74 wrote:Image
I think this is what is known a "disclaimer", usually meant to ward off beauraucrats, bean-counters, and nitpickers.

Re: Do you aknowledge the importance of dance music

Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 12:46 pm
by steveman
Soundwave wrote:Kraftwerk didn't invent electro (they did experimental synth pop) it was Afrike Baambaata who nicked the beat from Computer World with the melody of Trance Europe Express and put it in the context of the underground club music of Detroit which went down a storm. Kraftwerk didn't mind this too much as it brought more (free) exposure to them in the US than any promotion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit_Techno

In Chicago Frankie Knuckles started getting experimental to mix disco loops (like Morroder)in the underground and house music then acid music was formed as TB303's were then cheap and obsolete. http://www.bradley.edu/las/eng/lotm/Chi ... e-text.htm

Tangerine Dream/Shulze and other Berlin School Krautrock has had a noted sonic influence on what was called experimental 'Ambient Techno' artist like The Orb, FSOL, Irresistible Force and of course Pete Namlook.

Jarre's Oxygene was the cross over album from electronic experimental to the mainstream and his uplifting synth anthems draw a lot of parallels with Euro style 'Trance' as it's now known which many leading Trance artists have credited. Jarre also did some of the most innovative electronic music in the early-mid 80's if look past the token pop singles.

All in all it can be said that dance music today is by far the most mainstream widespread form of electronic music thats ever been which also covers endless sub genres and that it draws more influence from the experimental innovation of the 70's than the synth pop/rock fad of the 80's which was essentially the same old musical format done with electronic sounds instead of gutiar, organ ect to give it a new flavor.
The instrument design also showed this when you compare the modulars of the 70's and the revolutionary digital synths of the early 80's which then got washed down into a more commercially viable 'keyboard' package to your 'ten a penny' letterbox LCD ROMpler of the late 80's-early 90's.


Although the popular Moog bass has remained throughout mainstream music the TB303 was the happy little accident that woke everyone up and re addressed the balance manufactures leading the way sonically instead of the musicians. You just have to look at the massive influence that dance music culture (including ambient, IDM, glitch ect) has had on synth/software design from the mid 90's.
This, Spot on IMO. =D> Also this
Soundwave wrote:Technically speaking the "beatless ambient" mentioned here did all come from dance/techno culture which then evolved into the chillout Ibiza and lounge music i.e. party hard on extacy/LSD then smoke a spliff, chill out and come down. The two go hand in hand and the symbyotic relationship is very fundamental to the scene as a whole.
This certainly chimes with my experiences in the UK. Remember going to a UK Electronica festival sometime in the 80s. Roedealius, Ian Boddy, Mark Shreeve etc, can't have been more than 100 people there, none of them women... :? So while there was some interest in electronic music it was very much on the fringes. Fast forward 10 years and there were packed gigs sold out featuring artists playing very similar music.

Re: Do you aknowledge the importance of dance music

Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 9:44 pm
by oryjen
Well, "dance music" is only bizness s**t for moving the grease of the 2% 'privileged' lost mindless people of that planet.
No?

Re: Do you aknowledge the importance of dance music

Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 11:14 pm
by Yatmandu
oryjen wrote:Well, "dance music" is only bizness s**t for moving the grease of the 2% 'privileged' lost mindless people of that planet.
No?
Que? :scratch: :sign5:

Re: Do you aknowledge the importance of dance music

Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 4:55 pm
by meatballfulton
Automatic Gainsay wrote:
Yatmandu wrote:I think your typical high-end EDM producer knows more about synthesis than just about any other music maker out there (Note: I said synthesis, not playing the keys!).
I'm not saying it's not true, but why do you think it to be true? Of all the genres which use synthesizers, I'm not sure that dance music is the one where the most creative synth patches are created.
Is there anyone here who is a "typical high-end EDM producer?"
Is that "greatest synthesists of all time" thread still around here somewhere?
I'm with AG here...EDM these days seems to make more usage of sampling and FX than pure synthesis. If anything, the synth sounds I hear in EDM are pretty simple but heavily processed.

How many EDM guys are seriously into granular synthesis, additive synthesis and physical modeling? I hear that stuff in the music of academic composers far more than I do in dance music!