JX-3P (midi expansion mod) + JX-8P with BCR2000

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Pro5
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JX-3P (midi expansion mod) + JX-8P with BCR2000

Post by Pro5 » Mon Jun 15, 2009 12:30 pm

I thought I would start this thread to stop the 'post pics of your gear' going off topic. As someone asked about the mod it made sense to put it in it's own thread (With more pictures).
Yoozer wrote:
Pro5 wrote:an update to my previous pics (i'm always moving around and swapping synths over). Recently installed the mod-chip/upgrade from inque to allow the JX-3P to work with 'any' midi controller (i think 1 bit resolution less but it's still rocking!).
That's the Organix mod, right? Was it a lot of work to set it up? I've got a JX8P, JX3P and Alpha Juno here that might want some external controller loving.

Yes that mod. Well I bought the DIY version and built the merger box myself which didn't take too long (and my soldering iron has seen better days)... it was all pretty simple if you follow the instructions and no 'very difficult part' installing it into the JX-3P itself (so long as you've done some soldering before).

As for setting up the BCR to work with it, I cheated and pre-programmed the BCR using the JX-3P midi editor from the mod maker and sending out the CC from my PC in learn mode so the set up took as long as it takes to click LEARN>move knob on bcr>move slider/button on software editor X all the functions (Not that many). Then I went in and fine tuned the lighting top (for top row) ie 'pan lighting' for the tuning or DCO level mix. Also fine tune the 'range' of data (as specified in the CC data that comes with it) for ex some parameters are only upto 64 not the full 127. Or you may need to adjust to your own tastes for amount of knob turn to parameter change... this is probably easier to do using BCRManager software or whatever.

short answer is it's very simple to setup.

As for JX-8P I used learn mode from JX-8P (2 midi cables) and selected the parameter then moved the edit slider on the 8P which sent the SYSEX to the BCR (not CC on the 8P).

and it's worked like a dream ever since :)

Will add pictures later inc various stages of the process.
Last edited by Pro5 on Mon Jun 15, 2009 12:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: JX-3P (midi expansion mod) + JX-8P with BCR2000

Post by Pro5 » Mon Jun 15, 2009 12:32 pm

original post:

an update to my previous pics (i'm always moving around and swapping synths over). Recently installed the mod-chip/upgrade from inque to allow the JX-3P to work with 'any' midi controller (i think 1 bit resolution less but it's still rocking!).

So It made sense to set this stack up - JX-8P, JX-3P, BCR2000 on top and with a flick of a preset switch (on the BCR) i'm controlling either synth - and both work with midi sequencer + live BCR tweaking which is cool (JX-3p couldn't do that previously sans mod)

My other BCR may be put into use in similar fashion above D-50/DX7IID but not sure yet if it's 'good enough' for D-50 (compared to software editor) it DOES work nicely on the DX7IId though (spread over 4 presets).

Image

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Re: JX-3P (midi expansion mod) + JX-8P with BCR2000

Post by Pro5 » Mon Jun 15, 2009 12:40 pm

Various pics of the building/installation of the expansion.

Merger Box building:

Image

Image

Image

JX-3P modification (Jumper wire from pins):

Image

Image

JX-3P PCB cutting/soldering: (ignore 2 wires here, I'd soldered them on the wrong side of the new 'cuts' and redid them after this photo)

Image

Box installed:

Image


After the JX-3P was screwed back together. Worked fine no loss of stored voices etc.

As above the BCR was then setup to control the 3P and 8P on 2 presets and I switch to whichever I want to program/tweak 'live' (while accepting incoming sequencer data). This saved me the hassle/cost of finding 2 Roland PG programmers - though obviously those are desirable as they are bespoke, and don't take up a midi port (but merge on the BCR works ok so you get the sequencer still controlling them and the ability to tweak at the same time) - I use mode S1 (standalone 1) on the BCR with out from PC to IN on BCR, out1 of BCR to In on JX-3P and Thru on JX-3P to In on JX-8P. Set to diff channels of course (3 and 8 in my case). All knobs on the BCR will also need setting to that midi channel so all JX-3P's preset knobs are midi channel 3 obviously.

blurry lights off shot to finish with: ;)

Image
Last edited by Pro5 on Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: JX-3P (midi expansion mod) + JX-8P with BCR2000

Post by Yoozer » Mon Jun 15, 2009 12:51 pm

Awesome, thanks for the pictures. I'm going to look for a BCR now :).
"Part of an instrument is what it can do, and part of it is what you do to it" - Suzanne Ciani, 197x.

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Re: JX-3P (midi expansion mod) + JX-8P with BCR2000

Post by Pro5 » Mon Jun 15, 2009 12:59 pm

Yoozer wrote:Awesome, thanks for the pictures. I'm going to look for a BCR now :).

I got 2 cheap (2nd hand) because they had USB probs (missing jack or.. just not working right) but the MIDI on them is pretty robust and all you need for this. USB is good for soft synth control etc but even then I can still use these via my PC's midi in exactly the same. I just loose an extra set of midi in/outs if the USB doesn't work.

Anyway I got them below 1/3 of their cost new but given the price of Roland PG-200/PG-800s now even at FULL price new the BCR would be ok (and do a whole lot more - inc control all my other synths/soft synths)

good luck

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Re: JX-3P (midi expansion mod) + JX-8P with BCR2000

Post by aredj » Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:20 pm

Being a heavy user of the bcr (the bulk of my posts here probably relate to it somehow)
Its one of behringers few outstanding products, save the look of it. The function for the price is nuts...
I think I'll take the opportunity here to sell it a little more... at least the things you wont read about it from their site...

I used it for a couple years always wishing I could program sysex to it.... As far as behringer says... they have absolutely no documentation regarding sysex - (although it does manage to 'learn' it from time to time...)

Anyway - someone on this forum turned me onto a 3rd party editor where you CAN program sysex (and everthing else)
Which totally changed the machine...

So far I've made sets for the synth editing of the MC307 (total menu driven h**l) The Matrix6, almost all the parameters for the MonoEvolver, MKS50 - and Im working on something for the commandstation (more menu h**l).... and all of this sysex.

Even little things i've found super usefull - I have a knob to slide thru 1-16 parts of the virusTI - much better then repeatedly pressing the cursor button...

I can control all those things from one tactile box right in front of me... I get all excited :shaking2:

I actually prefer rack gear now.. hahaha

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Re: JX-3P (midi expansion mod) + JX-8P with BCR2000

Post by Pro5 » Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:37 pm

Yes i REALLY like the BCR.. it's almost become an instrument in it's own right when I'm twiddling knobs on it all night... quite 'organic' and because it's just one box to control many makes for less space wasted and less headaches.

I don't mind the looks that much, it's a bit over-chunky - but I plan to paint mine to suit the JX colour schemes and possibly add thinner sides... my 'spare' one I was thinking of some mad custom box for but.. we'll see.

And btw I was always in the camp that said the two JX's were easily programmable from the single slider, that is still the case - it is NOT hard. However the programmer (genuine or BCR) just makes it more fun and more likely that you will get something good due to instant parameter access.

I've created some cool JX-8P bass sounds in the first hour of using the BCR compared to 6 months of not really bothering before ;)

And even the DX7 II-D is getting to feel more 'hands on' thanks to this box of tricks... though as with a lot of FM programming it's 'happy accidents' the BCR makes it simple to try out lots of things at once so you can see what is working... rather than having to 'plan' in advance as you tend to when using the synths own controls. And I don't think software editors completely avoid that restrictive feel (on any of my synts) because it's always less tactile.

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Re: JX-3P (midi expansion mod) + JX-8P with BCR2000

Post by Sound Avenue » Mon Oct 19, 2009 2:30 pm

Hi all!

Very nice work! =D>

Any idea how this would work on a Super JX-10?

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Re: JX-3P (midi expansion mod) + JX-8P with BCR2000

Post by Pro5 » Mon Oct 19, 2009 4:46 pm

Sound Avenue wrote:Hi all!

Very nice work! =D>

Any idea how this would work on a Super JX-10?

JX-10 prob wouldn't be plug and play (like the 8P) as it has a very strange/clunky midi implementation. If you do the 'firmware upgrade' (JX-10) it may then work (?)

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Re: JX-3P (midi expansion mod) + JX-8P with BCR2000

Post by druzz » Mon Oct 19, 2009 5:45 pm

aredj wrote:
So far I've made sets for the synth editing of the MC307 (total menu driven h**l) The Matrix6, almost all the parameters for the MonoEvolver, MKS50 - and Im working on something for the commandstation (more menu h**l).... and all of this sysex.

i am planning on getting a bcr2000 for my matrix6r. is it possible to configure it all with the learn function ? i would be very interrested to know how you mapped the many parameters on the bcr. did you follow the order of the parameter numbers on many "pages" or did you select your favorite parameters? i am wondering how i will do this.

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Re: JX-3P (midi expansion mod) + JX-8P with BCR2000

Post by Yatmandu » Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:24 pm

druzz wrote:
aredj wrote:
So far I've made sets for the synth editing of the MC307 (total menu driven h**l) The Matrix6, almost all the parameters for the MonoEvolver, MKS50 - and Im working on something for the commandstation (more menu h**l).... and all of this sysex.

i am planning on getting a bcr2000 for my matrix6r. is it possible to configure it all with the learn function ? i would be very interrested to know how you mapped the many parameters on the bcr. did you follow the order of the parameter numbers on many "pages" or did you select your favorite parameters? i am wondering how i will do this.
I recently bought a bcr2k to control primarily my matrix 6r and also my mopho. I looked all over the web for any clues on programming the bcr for the matrix, but couldn't find anything concrete. I'm not sure if MIDI learn could work with the 6R, but here's what I did to get some form of control on the 6R: I am using the BCR2K along with the Matrix 2001 software on PC (http://www.mk2software.com/matrix/index.php). I simply setup a new preset page on the BCR, starting with CC #12 on the top left encoder, and moving sequentially down the face of the BCR and mapping it to the parameter screens on Matrix 2001 (CC's start at #12 in this software) (** this is a two step process: first blindly set the knobs of bcr2k to CC#12 through CC#70+ - I forget how many ** and the second step is to use midi-learn on the software, to map each knob to a parameter). The 2nd,3rd,4th pages of the puch-button encoders lined-up with EG1, EG2, EG3 + controls below the EG's. This will only make sense if you look at the Matrix 2001 s/w on page 2.

You can click on the software "learn" button and assign an encoder knob to it. Most of the parameters control in real-time, although you have to move them slowly, but some controls basically freeze the 6R so I would say they're not anywhere near real-time.

Anyway, the BCR2k is a wonderful controller. Good luck with it, and PM if you have some Q's.

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Re: JX-3P (midi expansion mod) + JX-8P with BCR2000

Post by druzz » Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:02 pm

thanks aredj! this scares me a bit though . programming midi stuff is usually a pain for me .
what about the mopho. this one should work with the learn function . i plan on using the bcr with the mopho as well.

PRo5
i keep telling myself i dont need a jx8p but you make me want one . already have the 3p with pg200 and i figure the matrix6 is a good alternative to the 8p but when i see those go for 200$ it makes me salivate. especially since i plan on getting at least one bcr2000.
its best for me at the time if i pretend the 8p dont exist.

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Re: JX-3P (midi expansion mod) + JX-8P with BCR2000

Post by aredj » Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:38 pm

I have a 3rd party editor from the bcr yahoo group.

With this editor (be prepared to do some learning) you can program anything into the bcr the way you want it.

I used a Matrix 6 editor outputting to midi ox - where I then wrote down all the information for the parameters that I wanted to program into the bcr.
Then I used the editor to plug them all in how i wanted.

Midi learn on the BCR is dodgy at best in my experience.

Also with the Mopho (if the editor is anything like the editor for the evolver...), the sysex is displayed somewhere as you twiddle various knobs.
Write those down and input them using the BCR editor...

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Re: JX-3P (midi expansion mod) + JX-8P with BCR2000

Post by Yatmandu » Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:38 pm

aredj wrote: So far I've made sets for the synth editing of the MC307 (total menu driven h**l) The Matrix6, almost all the parameters for the MonoEvolver, MKS50 - and Im working on something for the commandstation (more menu h**l).... and all of this sysex.
How did you go about programming for the Matrix 6? I couldn't figure out where to start, so I used the matrix 2001 program in between. Does bcr2000 learn sysex somehow from the Matrix? Or did you look up all the sysex info and painstakingly code it into the BCR? Any chance I can get your template? #-o Thanks...

EDIT: oops, I just saw your reply before my post, that explains it...thanks

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Re: JX-3P (midi expansion mod) + JX-8P with BCR2000

Post by aredj » Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:23 am

I wish I had a template to share... even though I know how to program the BCR for the matrix6 - (and started to do it) my drehbank does the matrix6 duties... Thus, I never actually finished an entire template for the BCR...

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