inverted vcf keyboard tracking?

Discussions about anything analog, digital, MIDI, synth technology, techniques, theories and more.
User avatar
pflosi
Synth Explorer
Synth Explorer
Posts: 3620
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:14 pm
Gear: more than 150 characters...
Location: zürich
Contact:

inverted vcf keyboard tracking?

Post by pflosi » Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:57 pm

hello folks,

i always thought it would be a nice feature to have inverted vcf keyboard tracking, so the filter closes when higher notes are played. almost every synth has vcf kbd tracking, but i know of none that has it inverted.

anyone knows one?

only analogue please, and no modulars (wouldnt be a great problem on a modular). i guess semimodulars like the korg ms etc could do this, when one has another box to invert the signals...

but are there rack / keyboard synths that have this feature on board, without using patch cables or breakout boxes?

User avatar
adamstan
Active Member
Active Member
Posts: 511
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 2:56 pm
Real name: Adam
Gear: Yamaha 2xDX7II|QY-70|PSR-S750|PSR-2000|TYROS|Electone D85|Electone E50
B5 DIY polysynth
KORG Poly61
Vermona DRM
Solton Programmer 24
LEMA EDD-5
Location: Poland
Contact:

Re: inverted vcf keyboard tracking?

Post by adamstan » Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:59 pm

AFAIK Andromeda has adjustable tracking that can be positive or negative. (I've read that pointed out in some review)
Man with a tape recorder | Living in the '80s ;-)

User avatar
pricklyrobot
Synth Explorer
Synth Explorer
Posts: 1742
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2006 6:37 am
Location: Austin, TX

Re: inverted vcf keyboard tracking?

Post by pricklyrobot » Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:23 pm

Not analog (but this isn't the Buyer's Guide, so I don't have to follow your rules! :wink: ), but the An1X can do negative key tracking. It's definitely a cool feature, can be subtle or very noticeable depending on how you set it up.

I would guess that negative key tracking was something that was generally only available in the modular domain back in the day (wild guess is it was just deemed to esoteric a modulation to warrant the extra expense of adding it to a keyboard synth), and that it only started showing up on keyboard synths with the advent of VA's and the ability to implement modular-type functions via DSP.
Arturia MiniBrute -- bits o' Euro -- Sammich SID -- E-mu MP-7 -- Korg ER-1 -- Thingamagoop

User avatar
pflosi
Synth Explorer
Synth Explorer
Posts: 3620
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:14 pm
Gear: more than 150 characters...
Location: zürich
Contact:

Re: inverted vcf keyboard tracking?

Post by pflosi » Thu Jul 30, 2009 3:12 pm

i havent found that on the andy...

as far as additional space: it would be easy to make bipolar sliders for kbd tracking, as many synths have for the EGs... that's what i would like on my andy, but it could for sure be that there is some function somewhere (the andy can use each modulation source bipolar, so if the keyboard "cv" can be used as modulation source, it would be possible on the andy. gotta check that when i get home from work, that would mean i already have the feature :))

for the an1x... nice. i count that in as the filter is analog ;)

but please no VAs or softies...

Hair
Active Member
Active Member
Posts: 402
Joined: Fri Jun 27, 2008 6:31 pm
Location: Edison, NJ
Contact:

Re: inverted vcf keyboard tracking?

Post by Hair » Thu Jul 30, 2009 3:23 pm

99% my Juno 106 does this but I just woke up, likely that the 60 and 6 does as well.

User avatar
pflosi
Synth Explorer
Synth Explorer
Posts: 3620
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:14 pm
Gear: more than 150 characters...
Location: zürich
Contact:

Re: inverted vcf keyboard tracking?

Post by pflosi » Thu Jul 30, 2009 3:58 pm

nope, they dont...

dont know bout the 106, but i'd be surprised...

User avatar
Synthaholic
Expert Member
Expert Member
Posts: 1206
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2007 5:43 pm
Gear: Motif XS6, TX802, D-550, A6
Location: NH

Re: inverted vcf keyboard tracking?

Post by Synthaholic » Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:06 pm

The 106 doesn't, but the andromeda does.

I haven't run into any other analogs that do... yet.
Two VCO: thanks to the push rods, one can choose several forms of waves at the same time!
(from a Babelfish translation of a Jupiter-6 site)

Yamaha: Motif XS6, TX802 Roland: D-550 Alesis: A6 Andromeda

Primal Drive
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 153
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2009 5:26 am
Location: Colorado in the US of A

Re: inverted vcf keyboard tracking?

Post by Primal Drive » Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:43 pm

pflosi wrote:
for the an1x... nice. i count that in as the filter is analog ;)

but please no VAs or softies...
Sorry, but the filters in the AN1x are not analog. It's a completely VA synth.

There are several nice VA synths that have the feature you're describing, but since you're not interested it's not worth listing them.
And then she said, "What the f...?"

User avatar
pflosi
Synth Explorer
Synth Explorer
Posts: 3620
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:14 pm
Gear: more than 150 characters...
Location: zürich
Contact:

Re: inverted vcf keyboard tracking?

Post by pflosi » Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:51 pm

oops yeah i messed the an1x up with the esq-1... how could i ;)

yeah definitely not interested in VAs...

cant wait to get home to search that feature on the andy. is it as i thought, the kbd value can be set as modulation source?

User avatar
hfinn
Expert Member
Expert Member
Posts: 1197
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 3:21 pm
Gear: http://soundcloud.com/heath-finnie
Location: Boston
Contact:

Re: inverted vcf keyboard tracking?

Post by hfinn » Thu Jul 30, 2009 5:20 pm

Are you actually curious or is this a quiz?

I only ask because it's asked strange. You ask like it's a feature that you think should be implemented and are interesting in using but then don't want to know about a whole group of synths that feature it. (modulars, semi modulars, analog only...)

User avatar
pflosi
Synth Explorer
Synth Explorer
Posts: 3620
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:14 pm
Gear: more than 150 characters...
Location: zürich
Contact:

Re: inverted vcf keyboard tracking?

Post by pflosi » Thu Jul 30, 2009 5:36 pm

i'm actually just curious... and i think it's a feature that should be implemented...

as i mentioned, it's no problem with a modular, that's obvious. no need to list every modular ever made ;)

i guess most semimodulars should need an external inverter box (which i have...), but yeah, let's count in these too...

ok, so if u want, throw in the VAs and softies... i'm just not interested in it, so i thought i'd exclude them... but it cant hurt ;)

as for the andy: how does one do that, synthaholic? what's the modulation source named in the menu?

User avatar
Solderman
Supporting Member!
Supporting Member!
Posts: 1799
Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2007 5:43 pm

Re: inverted vcf keyboard tracking?

Post by Solderman » Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:40 pm

Also just curious, but wouldn't this roll-off the upper keyboard too quickly? Maybe not so much for higher cutoff settings and using a 2 pole filter. Filter self-oscillation with this tracking might be interesting.
I am no longer in pursuit of vintage synths. The generally absurd inflation from demand versus practical use and maintenance costs is no longer viable. The internet has suffocated and vanquished yet another wonderful hobby. Too bad.
--Solderman no more.

User avatar
Zamise
Supporting Member!
Supporting Member!
Posts: 2351
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 2:41 am
Gear: Rollhand P00
Band: Quantum-Source
Location: DenverMetroUSA, Quantum-Source.com
Contact:

Re: inverted vcf keyboard tracking?

Post by Zamise » Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:18 pm

Thinking might be more usefull to do with a sampler that has that feature. Seems to work best with HPF, for me it helps prevent nasty distortion or self ossilation maybe why you don't see it much on analogs?
Last edited by Zamise on Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:01 pm, edited 9 times in total.
<ZQS> [....<OII>.....soundcloud player v2.42.....................link]

User avatar
Synthaholic
Expert Member
Expert Member
Posts: 1206
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2007 5:43 pm
Gear: Motif XS6, TX802, D-550, A6
Location: NH

Re: inverted vcf keyboard tracking?

Post by Synthaholic » Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:26 pm

pflosi wrote:as for the andy: how does one do that, synthaholic? what's the modulation source named in the menu?
IIRC, the key tracking knob itself only gives you positive tracking (0-100), but the corresponding soft knob under the LCD when in the filter settings page lets you go positive or negative (-100 to +100). Sort of like the way the pitch EG level knob works... hard knob gives you positive, soft knob gives you positive+negative.

I could be wrong, in which case you would do it with a modulation route, routing keyboard pitch (or note #) to filter cutoff with a negative level.
Two VCO: thanks to the push rods, one can choose several forms of waves at the same time!
(from a Babelfish translation of a Jupiter-6 site)

Yamaha: Motif XS6, TX802 Roland: D-550 Alesis: A6 Andromeda

elmacaco
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 68
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2005 5:39 am

Re: inverted vcf keyboard tracking?

Post by elmacaco » Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:31 pm

yes the Andromeda can do it, so can the Oberheim Xpander and Matrix 12, maybe the matrix 6 can do it too, it wouldn't surprise me. With the tracking generators you can have it do more than just follow it straight up, I've used it before for having the tracking invert part way up the keyboard.

Post Reply