So... What's up at Elektron?

Discussions about anything analog, digital, MIDI, synth technology, techniques, theories and more.
rivas3
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Re: So... What's up at Elektron?

Post by rivas3 » Fri Aug 14, 2009 2:36 pm

i use both the mduw and mono.... i love the interface of these machines. what i would like to see in a new product is a full on sampler with memory fitting for a machine in 2009. 2mb for the mduw, i can appreciate less is more. but gimme 2gb. i use these machines along with samplers live. having the sequencer sampler ala elektron style would kill.

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Re: So... What's up at Elektron?

Post by cartesia » Fri Aug 14, 2009 3:57 pm

I'd like to see a sequencer/controller.. no sound generation..

include more assignable controls, midi LFOs, midi envelope generators, things like that... kind of like a modular midi environment, with sequencers and other modulating type things...

And it should be like the cost of a blofeld. and the same colour, size and shape of the blofeld, so that it suits me perfectly.. :lol:

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Re: So... What's up at Elektron?

Post by kirlian » Fri Aug 14, 2009 4:34 pm

you can pretty much bet your a$$ it's going to be expensive.

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Re: So... What's up at Elektron?

Post by idiotboy » Fri Aug 14, 2009 5:37 pm

I'd like to see Elektron do their take on a sampler.

A full-featured sampler with all the good sequencer bits from the MD and MnM.

Add in all the good bits from Roland's V-synth, like the time-trip thing.

Yeah. Elektron's V-synth killer, but in a groovebox form-factor. That's what I want.
Last edited by idiotboy on Fri Aug 14, 2009 7:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: So... What's up at Elektron?

Post by XpanderXt » Fri Aug 14, 2009 7:02 pm

Their prices aren't bad. They are a tiny company making niche products in short runs for a really small market. There is no way to get the pricing down any lower.
I think we are going to see prices go back up to where they should be, not as high as when a Jupiter 8 costs $4995 or a new Prophet 5 was $2995, but in the $1000 - $2500 range which is a good price for a nice musical instrument.
The big companies are losing their shorts right now. Sales in the keyboard world are down to about 25% of what they were 5 years ago. We may see some of the big companies go down, it's that bad.

The other option is to go software only. Then you buy the same product over and over again if the company stays in business and hope they will upgrade it to the next OS so that your investment doesn't go away.

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Re: So... What's up at Elektron?

Post by mute » Fri Aug 14, 2009 8:56 pm

XpanderXt wrote: The big companies are losing their shorts right now. Sales in the keyboard world are down to about 25% of what they were 5 years ago. We may see some of the big companies go down, it's that bad.
What are you basing this on? Got any details? Alot of ppl seem to speculate but when you check the companies earnings, restructuring and futures none of them really look in that bad of shape imo.

I mean, Yamaha has its problems but rightfully should..I can understand Yamaha having issues, their market is much broader than the others and the whole of the instrument/pa/etc market has been hurt by the economic downturn.

Roland's performance hasn't been bad and only suffered the typical loss from the international recession (like everyone else), in fact, just before the international financial issues (2008) Roland's performance was way up compared to 3 years prior. Their projected earnings for the years ahead are conservative and scaled back, but the company has also restructed and minimized quite a bit so the projected earnings against scale weigh out.

Korg has been performing stellar and is used as an example of marketing and sales during the down times and slow growth period of their market (but still growing). Indie companies are popping up left/right and plenty of ppl have been making a decent living from it. Now that things are just starting to turn around and these companies have lowered costs and reduced inventory there's a pretty positive outlook ahead as long as things continue to improve. The synth market within the last 5 years or so has been a trendy market with some decent (slow) growth. It hasn't really been this interesting company and product wise since the early to mid/late 80's.

The woes of being a smaller company are different altogether, but i dont really see any of the ''big 3" synth/keyboard makers going anywhere. Other music tech companies like Avid/M-Audio, Behringer, some software companies, etc. may be seeing some trouble .. but that market is much more heavily saturated. The 'kinda-big' boutique synth/controller companies like Waldrof, Access, Nord, Novation, etc. might be suffering harder from the impact of the economic downturn than the others because their size and niche and product costs+msrp's makes them vulernable. I wouldn't know without looking @ their earnings though (which is hard because many are not publicly traded). Waldorf from current appearances dont seem to be doing too bad.

Anyways, I'm not claiming to know a ton of facts.. I just find it an interesting subject.

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Re: So... What's up at Elektron?

Post by XpanderXt » Fri Aug 14, 2009 11:55 pm

I have worked for some of these manufacturers. I know at least someone at most of the other companies because I used to work at one of the big ones. I see sales numbers in MI sales trak. I talk to buyers at the biggest dealers on a regular basis.
I'm not sure where you are getting your info but one of the companies you mentioned mothballed 3 of their 5 factories, did 3 rounds of layoffs, is doing mandatory unpaid days off and is borrowing money. Their guitar effects division is the only thing carrying them along with electronic percussion. They have been on a downward slide for 5 or 6 years now.
M-Audio did big layoffs as well and they have lost market share to other brands recently.
Korg has the Microkorg and XL as well as the little Kaos products doing well. These are lower priced and much lower margin products though. The workstation sales are way down. They also have guitar divisons which do OK. The guitar market is down but not terribly. But overall they aren't as strong as they once were.
Yamaha is so widespread that they don't feel the effects as hard as others. The Band and orchestra market is huge and they own a lot of that. The S90 is one of the top selling keyboards on the market next to the Microkorg which leads but one good product does not support a company.
The monthly sales reports that MI sales trak shows are fairly accurate +/-20% which factored with known sales allows me to extrapolate about what a company is selling. This has been proven for many years of forecasting.
Nord is doing OK with their e-pianos. Novation does fair but they are not in the biggest dealer in the world which runs about 40% of a bigger companies sales. The same would go for Waldorf and Access. They all are missing a large market due to this.

The synth market is not in a slow growth stage at all. It is dropping very fast, too the point where there isn't much room to drop further. Software has hurt all hardware sales except for controllers which are doing well for two companies.

I think we will see companies like Elektron, DSI, and others who can keep their size down, be happy with low number product runs, do OK and stay afloat. Some of the big ones might be in for some hurt unless the markets turnaround, there is no evidence of this happening in MI for some time though.

The original point was that Elektron's products aren't over priced or very expensive really for what they are. I hope they come out with something cool. I imagine that they will.

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Re: So... What's up at Elektron?

Post by Cerebral Infect » Sat Aug 15, 2009 12:20 am

A NESstation would be the next logical step.
Minimoog Voyager, Pulse 2, MS-20 Mini, Bass Station 2, Virus TI,DSI Mek, DSI Prophet 08, Nord Modular G2, x0xb0x, MB-6582, Sammich FM, Shruthi XT, Juno 106, S90ES, TX81Z, DM10X e-drums, Rocktron Banshee, Dr-110 and too many VSTs.

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Re: So... What's up at Elektron?

Post by guesswho » Sat Aug 15, 2009 12:35 am

TrondC wrote: hah, Elektron boxers would actually be awesome, I'd get a couple for sure ;)
I don't wear underwear. I also don't own any of their products.
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
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Re: So... What's up at Elektron?

Post by mute » Sat Aug 15, 2009 12:49 am

I got the info from public financial filings by the companys through google and yahoo. The research behind market growth is in many places, but I wasn't talking strictly synths.. that comment was about the 'big 3', who do much more than synths or keyboards. Mass layoff's and closings don't equate a business in dire straits either. It sucks for employee's, but employers are just reducing cost so they can retain profitability that has dropped due to dwindling demand (again, this is affecting all sectors). Most of us in any type of job right now can relate to that and short staffing. Alot of the moves made by manufactorers and distributors are smart in the long hall too, including some of the closures of warehouses and plants, forcing them to think creatively and affordably. When the market rebounds, companies that have rightfully reduced their cost can very well see the benefit from a healthier economy and many of the projected earnings and quarterly reports address that.

All public companies borrow money on a constant basis.. if they can't borrow money then that's when they are in trouble.

For example the company I work for let go of half it's staff (200+) closed 2 warehouses, sold off assests, got so bad they couldn't get a loan at one point till they met bank demands, and so on and so on.. it's a pretty typical story right now across the world. Now however, with all these reduced costs and many newly streamlined methods of manufacturing our products and services our company saw an increase in overall revenue that exceeded profits from 3 years ago before the economic downturn. All this following 3 straight quarters of not meeting earnings expectations and even the stock dropping so bad we were temporarily delisted.

I just don't think it's nearly as bad as people think.. that's all. I'm not saying its not bad, specially for workers, but industry wise I don't think it's as worse off as people think and with all the trendy interest in synths these past few years I believe once consumers are comfortable with the economy again that suddenly there will be a strong influx of sales.

However, you can all me an optimist or ignorant and I'll be ok with that..

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Re: So... What's up at Elektron?

Post by garranimal » Sat Aug 15, 2009 4:25 am

JSRockit wrote:
garranimal wrote:a proper synth keyboard? :shock:
That would suck...
Edit: actually I've forgotten they have been there done that. And no it doesn't look anything like microkorg. #-o
Image

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Re: So... What's up at Elektron?

Post by D-Collector » Sat Aug 15, 2009 10:30 am

XpanderXt wrote:Their prices aren't bad. They are a tiny company making niche products in short runs for a really small market. There is no way to get the pricing down any lower.
I think we are going to see prices go back up to where they should be, not as high as when a Jupiter 8 costs $4995 or a new Prophet 5 was $2995, but in the $1000 - $2500 range which is a good price for a nice musical instrument.
Aren't bad? Their products are incredibly overpriced. And I can think of many niches smaller and more obscure than electronic instruments. You say their market is small. Almost 1600 Euros for a drum machine? Of course it is small. Even if money was no object for me I would never spend that much on one single little box.

A lot of people want the Machinedrums and I bet they would have a lot more sales / bigger market if they brought their prices down to a reasonable level. For 1600 Euros it should have lifetime warranty.

Prices back up where they should be? Sure, with the cheap parts, cost efficient production methods and questionable build quality of modern electronic instruments, why not...

:shock:

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Re: So... What's up at Elektron?

Post by Syn303 » Sat Aug 15, 2009 12:13 pm

For the price they are now is vastly over inflated, i've had in the past i've had a faulty MD-UW and a Monomachine. When the MkII UW first came out it was £1099 in certain UK music shops, the Monomachine MkII was £899 back then. Now the UW is £1,276 and the Monomachine is £1,120. And the sample memory is a measly 2.5mb, of course elektron stated that this is to force the user to be more creative. My Fanton Xa can take a 2GB CF card that only costs £6 for sample storage (2000 samples max, more if depending on size and are mono or stereo samples)

Beats me how elektron never allowed for a CF card slot in their UW's for mass sample storage and recall?
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Re: So... What's up at Elektron?

Post by cartesia » Sat Aug 15, 2009 2:10 pm

there are probably licensing fees for using certain storage slots? unsure.

I think the reason they're overpriced is because they're the only people making quality grooveboxes... What is the competition? Spectralis? Jomox 888/999? (and those 2 are kind of aimed at different crowds).. other than that? Korg ESX/EMX, and possibly the roland MC-909

And as for 'expensive short-run niche products' - does the Waldorf Blofeld fit in there somewhere? It's crazy cheap.

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Re: So... What's up at Elektron?

Post by D-Collector » Sat Aug 15, 2009 2:40 pm

Syn303 wrote:Beats me how elektron never allowed for a CF card slot in their UW's for mass sample storage and recall?
Less storage expenses means more pretzels in the company lunchroom.

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