Patch website (idea -vote after reading)

Discussions about anything analog, digital, MIDI, synth technology, techniques, theories and more.

What would you do?

Use this
11
52%
Help out (maintain the website, write code and design "layouts")
6
29%
Don't need it
4
19%
 
Total votes: 21

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hageir
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Patch website (idea -vote after reading)

Post by hageir » Thu Aug 13, 2009 11:20 pm

I think I dreamt this idea:

A website where you "submit" a patch into the "library" (which you can search off course).
You would have all kinds of categories:
Basses
Pads
Leads
Drums
FX
etc.

And you can choose your synth and see all the patches for it.

–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––

Ok, let's say you want to submit an awesome synth drum you made on your SH-101.

You choose (from a menu) Roland -> SH-101 and you get this drawing/picture of all the controls/sliders. You can move all of them and thus make the exact same patch.

What's easier; the layout or numbers/values when you're "inputting" the patch on your synth?
Both are good, one's faster the other maybe a little more accurate, so we could have both (the numbers for each parameter in a list, next to the layout).

Users would create an account they cand login to and submit patches, comment and fix/make changes to the patches they've made.

Here's what you would see on the screen (except it would be a clean, fully drawn vector graphic/drawing -probably flash)
Image

I think this idea would be best for analog "hands-on" synths i.e. no digital menu diving and stuff, but maybe..

My Alpha Juno is very easy to program although it has that system so maybe for those kinds of synths there would only be a list?

Is anybody up for doing (help out) this?
Also,
Would you use this?
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Re: Patch website (idea -vote after reading)

Post by paugui » Thu Aug 13, 2009 11:39 pm

I think it is an interesting idea, but doing that layout for all different synths seem to be time consuming.

I think it would be more interesting, and easier to start up, to create a section of the forum to share patches for different synths (for the ones that don't support sysex, like the SH-101, a .jpeg or .pdf with the parameter values assigned on a paper similar to the one you present on the image) and depending on the quantity of posts on each of them an interface like the one you mention could be developed.

That way it would be possible to see if the system was useful or not.

Personally, my belief is that it would be quite useful, especially for all synths with knobbed interfaces.

My only point is that I am not sure it could be worth the work it would take to develop, unless you start up with a more generic interface with standard sliders or knobs for the different parameters, without a resemblance with the original interface.

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Re: Patch website (idea -vote after reading)

Post by seamonkey » Thu Aug 13, 2009 11:47 pm

There is already a website that does this, however I don't think they have any for vintage analogs or diagrams as you suggest.
It's called Patch Arena, in fact I submitted some, many years ago for the Steinberg Model E VST.
http://www.patcharena.com/
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Re: Patch website (idea -vote after reading)

Post by hageir » Fri Aug 14, 2009 12:00 am

All good points.

Paugui,
yeah that would make sense, but I'm a graphic designer and re-tracing the layouts from manuals and stuff is easy-piecy.. It wouldn't take a long time. But then again, there's a ton of synths!
But imagine this is in the long run, it would be awesome!

One other idea is that users submit photos of the patches :)
haha

seamonkey,
thanks for that link,
but that site for example is so badly designed and way too complicated (seems to have a forum and a downloads section as well).

This would just be super simple, you would gain access to everything on the first page (sort of like Vintage Synth) and it would all be on-screen..
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Re: Patch website (idea -vote after reading)

Post by retrosounds » Fri Aug 14, 2009 12:14 am

I like the general idea, sounds like something I'd use a lot.
I could help design some layouts.

Would this be good enough detail wise for a layout?
Image
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Re: Patch website (idea -vote after reading)

Post by paugui » Fri Aug 14, 2009 12:23 am

I had never heard about patch arena, but looking at the website it doesn't seem to have that much hardware patches, so I would say a section on VSE just for patches wouldn't be bad at all.
On electro-music.com there is a similar section but only for the Nord Modular (it has a whole forum section for the G2 and it has a patch section which has subsections just with patches by kind of sound).
It is by far the best patch sharing website I've seen, despite it only has Nord Modular patches (I think it has some others too but in a quite small number).


If you are a graphic designer I guess it would be easy then :P
It would just be nice to have an idea of which synths would have more demand so that the system could grow healthy.

One nice feature, after the layout is done, would be convert the .jpeg or .pdf file with the image of the patch into a file for the interface to display, meaning all the patches could be displayed on the virtual interface.
This way, there would be two different methods to insert patches, by using the interface and by an image.

The best part of this system would be if a sample, for example a sample of the middle C, was required, so that you could select the kind of patch you wanted for your synth, selected the patch and could listen to it to see if you really wanted it (could be nice if you were on a street with your ipod and had an idea for a song and you were searching for sounds to use on it, for example).

Other feature that would be good would be the option of printing the diagram of the patch, even if a .jpeg or .pdf was inserted, as this would take less space than a photo.

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Re: Patch website (idea -vote after reading)

Post by seamonkey » Fri Aug 14, 2009 1:03 am

hageir wrote: seamonkey,
thanks for that link,
This would just be super simple, you would gain access to everything on the first page (sort of like Vintage Synth) and it would all be on-screen..
You're welcome. If you're up to the task, I think it sounds like a great idea. It has been years since I've been to that site and if memory serves me correct, it was mostly VST based at that time.

Pictures of settings are also a good idea, when I had my dot.com modular, that is how I used to remember my settings.
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Re: Patch website (idea -vote after reading)

Post by StepLogik » Fri Aug 14, 2009 1:33 am

Why not write a browser plug-in so that synths with Sysex support could receive the patches directly from the site? you could load the patch into the edit buffer of the synth so the user could demo it.

This would be quite simple with Greasemonkey.

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Re: Patch website (idea -vote after reading)

Post by EmptySet » Fri Aug 14, 2009 7:32 am

This is a great idea, and something like I had considered doing myself in the past. However, to me it sounds like a pretty daunting task. Especially when you consider all of the technical issues with which you'll need to be familiar with on the various synths. It's not just enough to have a picture of one. Someone has to know how it actually works. And that someone needs to be a contributor to the site. That's not a small request.

Would I love a site like this? Yes! Would I use it and contribute? Absolutely! Would I be surprised if it crumbles under the crushing weight of the voluminous synth list or simply ends up with a patch or two for most synths? Sad, yes, but surprised, not so much.

A clearinghouse of synth patches with database would be awesome. The closet thing there is now: Yahoo groups and it's kind of icky to navigate. (you have to become a member of a group, downloads are all over the place, etc…) If this site were to be any good, it should probably have some kind of verification process to know that uploads or submissions were legit, worked with the intended synth, not a virus, etc… And as others have mentioned, there'd be a ton of artwork you'd need if you want to do manual synth patch uploads with onscreen knobs. (you could even add a "randomize" feature… might be cool) I also think that using Flash would be a big mistake. (a debate for another day)

Sorry, I didn't mean for this to be as pessimistic sounding as it might be. Just thought I'd tell you guys what has stopped me in the past from pursuing a very similar idea. It's not an impossibility. But it'd be a big big job.

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Re: Patch website (idea -vote after reading)

Post by EmptySet » Fri Aug 14, 2009 8:05 am

Something else to consider… some synths have no storage, so you're relegated to patch sheets or virtual control panels, as has been discussed. You'll also have a very large collection of synths that can dump sysex patches singly or as banks. Finally, you're going to run into some synths that only have patch storage as audio files. I think a reasonable site would deal seamlessly with all three possibilities.

While the idea is intriguing, I question the wisdom of tying this all together with a web browser plugin. It would get complicated very fast. (not to mention Win/Mac specific issues)

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Re: Patch website (idea -vote after reading)

Post by Hair » Fri Aug 14, 2009 5:04 pm

I think for synths with MIDI/SysEx and all that, you can usually find patch banks pretty easily and though nice, I don't think patch downloads should be what the site is built on - it could definitely come later though. I really think a site like this would really benefit knobby synths, especially ones without patch storage, but not exclusively by any means. You could add in some choice VSTs too, even if the site linked above also does that.

I could see this as a valuable modern resource for people wanting to learn or become better versed in subtractive synthesis especially, even if most of us here are already pretty comfortable with it.

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Re: Patch website (idea -vote after reading)

Post by masyst » Fri Aug 14, 2009 5:49 pm

It would be a great idea.
What about collect manuals, schematics, service manuals etc. at the site too?
And maby have some tips and tricks for the synths...
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Re: Patch website (idea -vote after reading)

Post by hageir » Fri Aug 14, 2009 7:54 pm

I'm on my way out,
I have to find some conductive paint!

Anyways,
I just realized one thing;
Custom-Synth in the UK probably has a ton of synth layouts in vector format,
he probably had to trace the layouts on the synths that he's done (and he's done quite a lot)..

I'm thinking,
we could start out with something simple like the SH-101 and the Pro-One?
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Re: Patch website (idea -vote after reading)

Post by EmptySet » Fri Aug 14, 2009 8:46 pm

Hair wrote:I think for synths with MIDI/SysEx and all that, you can usually find patch banks pretty easily and though nice, I don't think patch downloads should be what the site is built on - it could definitely come later though. I really think a site like this would really benefit knobby synths, especially ones without patch storage, but not exclusively by any means. You could add in some choice VSTs too, even if the site linked above also does that.

I could see this as a valuable modern resource for people wanting to learn or become better versed in subtractive synthesis especially, even if most of us here are already pretty comfortable with it.

I'm not entirely seeing the benefit of showing images of synths and their knob settings if they are also synths that support patch storage. I mean, I guess I could see a point to it, but to me, people want patches for their synths. If the site was just a "here's images of knob settings for non-storage synths", I'd be much less likely to use it. I don't even have a synth that meets this description. Just my two cents.

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Re: Patch website (idea -vote after reading)

Post by stalla » Fri Aug 14, 2009 8:54 pm

Great idea.
Personally,I think a server would be more appropriate (ftp, or whatever client...) to stock sysex files / download and upload it. It should be moderate by members. I can host if needed !
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