Yamaha - enemies of synthsis!

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Yamaha - enemies of synthsis!

Post by tom Cadillac » Fri Oct 16, 2009 8:21 pm

Well why not? Ist they're a bigger multicorp - bikes ets... with perhaps no real interest in synthesizers apoart from adding them to their musical instrument roster. Sure every manufacturer wants to succeed, but at least Korg and Roland give us amazing innovative stuff to buy (K pads, V synth etc)

Then there's the DX7 and the legal attack on casio to stop them using similar tech.
Then the fs1r - and their insulting attitude towards users.
Any other major crimes?

Why won't they actually make a dedicated fm synthsis synth that is user friendly. Its probably too late now, but what a loss. And so we have endless copies of analogue and no exploration of the most exciting form of digital synthsis. [-X
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Re: Yamaha - enemies of synthsis!

Post by maindeglorie » Fri Oct 16, 2009 8:27 pm

The funny thing is... if they released a new modern FM synth loaded with knobs and sliders and renamed FM to something like "Xtreme Advanced Modeling" it would probably sell a fortune.

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Re: Yamaha - enemies of synthsis!

Post by madtheory » Fri Oct 16, 2009 8:48 pm

The DX7 is a fine interface. It's just that FM is c**p. :p

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Re: Yamaha - enemies of synthsis!

Post by cornutt » Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:09 pm

Yamaha doesn't matter in the synth market one way or the other these days. They're pretty much out. There is some stuff you can do with the Motifs, but that's not really what they're for.
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Re: Yamaha - enemies of synthsis!

Post by tom Cadillac » Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:21 pm

The trouble is - I don't think fm is c**p. To my ears the fs1r is a contender for the best sounding synth ever. And there's the prehistory of hammond tonewheel organs that shaped so much of keyboard history, which were also based on sine wave manipulation. As far as I know (and my knowledge of synthsis is limited to pragmatic use) sine waves are the basic building block of sound and to create with them gives the best foundation. The dx7 is another testament to this. It sold coz it sounded so good.
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Re: Yamaha - enemies of synthsis!

Post by CS_TBL » Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:47 pm

As far as I know, the hardware market is shrinking. Whether you like it or not. Back in the days people relied on commercial hardware to present new ideas 'n things. These days the innovation comes in form of software. Whether you like it or not. As long as hobby programmers make things that are about to compete on the same levels as professional instruments, the industry has no choice to offer things at low prices, *if* they can sell things anyway.

Note that I'm not telling people what to use, so this is not a H vs S debate. :P It all comes down to this: yesteryear the industry was in charge, now the ordinary people are in charge. Not just in the musictech business, also in the music album market, where indie musicians are circumventing the traditional publishing route and do all bits themself. It's a trend.

You can sell your virtual instrument in the musictech market if it's sample based. If you sell 16GB worth o' duduk sounds, then you'll sell. As normal people usually don't have duduks, and I wonder whether the country where these duduks come from has internet at all. So, the everyday people can't really come up with a free alternative on this.
But algorithms like traditional analogue/fm/physical modelling etc., everything that's formulas, well, that's as easy to do for bedroom coders as for industry professionals.

So, yea: knowing that, do you think it's strange that Yamaha doesn't put their hopes on a new FM synth or whatever new idea? Hartmann tried, and failed. Why would Yamaha bother with a new kind of DX7?
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Re: Yamaha - enemies of synthsis!

Post by tom Cadillac » Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:10 pm

I quite agree with you. Just wishful thinking. But its too late now software is so major. Its more a blast at past crimes. Personally I don't do software as I'v a painful alergy to computers and I note that before the dx Yamaha seemed to really care about building great innovative instruments,

I don't know many facts about the legal action against Casio (who built wildily exciting instruments before stopping dead in their tracks). Was this a result of being warned off Yamaha's turf? And really should anyone have been able to patent such a basic concept as fm synthesis. Maybe Bob Moog should have got better legal advice. UGH! :roll:
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Re: Yamaha - enemies of synthsis!

Post by balma » Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:14 pm

Uh! what@!

Who said that FM synthesis is c**p???

I won't discuss tastes, but FM is one of the best synthesis to make sounds from scratch. FM is beatiful, maybe you haven't dig enough.

About Yamaha, don't forget, that a LOT of actual professional synth players, learned keyboards with YAMAHA PSR arranger keyboards, or took Electone organ classes.

Now, if there's a synth with a DEEP digital synthesis around there, is the Yamaha EX5


Image

Yamaha built great machines. They just weren't able to get closer to the dance scene like Korg or Roland did with their army of drum machines grooveboxes or electribes, and reach more public.

But at the moment, Motifs are better on the workstation area than Fantoms or Tritons....


and yeah, the market is shrinking,


We are going from this:
Image

to this

Image

On the latest visible case, a company that was great on hardware samplers area, has migrated slowly to the sample-based software: From E-MU, to "Creative Emu". Very sad.... :x

Companies like Emu, are going from synths and great samplers to PC parts. They are more accessible to the crowds, cheaper, everybody has a pc, so, why to invest creating new machines> better to make accessories for those PC at thousands of homes.
Last edited by balma on Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Yamaha - enemies of synthsis!

Post by Yatmandu » Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:16 pm

madtheory wrote:The DX7 is a fine interface. It's just that FM is c**p. :p
I think you meant: "FM is a fine synthesis technique. It's just that the DX7 interface is c**p." :idea:

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Re: Yamaha - enemies of synthsis!

Post by V301H » Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:41 pm

When the DX-7 came out Samplers were very expensive and FM synthesis was good at doing many of the types of sounds Samplers could do at much lower cost. Yamaha hit the market at just the right time with the DX series. Another three or four years and it would have never been the phenomenal seller it became. When Sampling and Sample playback became cheap that became the standard of the industry. Yamaha has the exclusive rights to FM, but Sampling is available to every company so nobody really dominates the market any more.
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Re: Yamaha - enemies of synthsis!

Post by Slickie » Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:54 pm

Maybe yamaha is more focused on all of the other musical instruments they make because they see more profit there... :lol:

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Re: Yamaha - enemies of synthsis!

Post by balma » Fri Oct 16, 2009 11:07 pm

Sorry for the spam but I couldn't resist to post it since I LOVE yamaha

YAMAHA VMAX: best motorcycle of all history..... :lol:
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Re: Yamaha - enemies of synthsis!

Post by madtheory » Fri Oct 16, 2009 11:52 pm

Yatmandu wrote:
madtheory wrote:The DX7 is a fine interface. It's just that FM is c**p. :p
I think you meant: "FM is a fine synthesis technique. It's just that the DX7 interface is c**p." :idea:
Nope.

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Re: Yamaha - enemies of synthsis!

Post by Dj Pound » Sat Oct 17, 2009 12:03 am

Sometimes I forget that Yamaha Owned part of Korg for about a good span of 7 years or so? Wonder how Korg would of turned out had they never bought back their stock from Yamaha in 1993.
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Re: Yamaha - enemies of synthsis!

Post by b3groover » Sat Oct 17, 2009 1:04 am

Yamaha doesn't own FM. Their licensing of the technology ran out years ago.

I still think they are a great company, they've just moved into other areas. Their acoustic instruments are all top-notch. Drums, pianos, woodwinds. I tune pianos for a living and my favorite pianos to tune are Yamahas. They are extremely stable and well-made and hold a tuning very well.

Yamaha was very smart to buy Steinberg. The future of synthesis is in software. Music production / DAWs are a big market. Yamaha is bringing Steinberg into the hardware A/D D/A interface market with some really great designs.

I recently snatched up a used FS1R. I am willing to wager it will turn out to be the last great hardware synthesizer that Yamaha produces.

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