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Re: Yamaha - enemies of synthsis!

Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:56 am
by goldphinga
Well there are some great workstation boards around but ultimately they are all pretty dull. I do reckon Yamaha may be cooking up something new and exciting on this front though, unless of course theres gonna be yet another motif variation.

Re: Yamaha - enemies of synthsis!

Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:14 pm
by DeFex
Yamaha and their lawyers have ruined any chance for nice Modeling synth like the original OASYS
PCI to be used with modern powerful DSP on a synth (not made with an atrocious yamaha interface).

I blame the plague on society called "lawyers" there are way too many of them making work for one another at everyone elses expense.

Re: Yamaha - enemies of synthsis!

Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:25 pm
by Ashe37
Um, really? i was pretty sure there were several synths that ran on DSP cards.

Re: Yamaha - enemies of synthsis!

Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:50 pm
by meatballfulton
goldphinga wrote:Well there are some great workstation boards around but ultimately they are all pretty dull.
All in your perspective. I was gobsmacked when I tried out a Motif ES, bought one the next week and sold all my other MIDI gear. Five years later I'm still happy with that decision.

Yes, in some ways it was a step back from the EX5 but in other ways a step forward. It sounds great and has a fantastic feature set.

Complaining about it just because it's not a CS80mkII is kinda silly [-X

Re: Yamaha - enemies of synthsis!

Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:51 pm
by meatballfulton
Ashe37 wrote:Um, really? i was pretty sure there were several synths that ran on DSP cards.
Yamaha holds numerous patents on modeling, the only other company to license the technology was their old pal Korg.

Re: Yamaha - enemies of synthsis!

Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 11:44 pm
by Ashe37
meatballfulton wrote:
Ashe37 wrote:Um, really? i was pretty sure there were several synths that ran on DSP cards.
Yamaha holds numerous patents on modeling, the only other company to license the technology was their old pal Korg.
yamaha and stanford university hold patents relating to digital waveguide synthesis... other forms are possible...

Re: Yamaha - enemies of synthsis!

Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:27 am
by volumetrik
Theres no excuse really as to why they cannot make things like CS-80 again, considering they still make pianos and ship them worldwide and thoes things are massive and heavy. They just don't take synths seriously anymore it seems.

Re: Yamaha - enemies of synthsis!

Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 11:21 am
by CS_TBL
Yes there is. Yamaha is not exactly stupid you know.., they have marketing gurus who know the market.

- a piano looses very little value, if any
- a piano is never a victim to trends in (pop)music
- a piano is furniture
- a piano has a somewhat difference audience than a synth

A new CS80 is a risk for Yamaha. You may want one, everyone on this forum may want one, but it's a minority compared to the amount of people who'd want to buy a piano. And I haven't even mentioned the -today- important factor called 'software'.

Re: Yamaha - enemies of synthsis!

Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 11:25 am
by volumetrik
CS_TBL wrote: A new CS80 is a risk for Yamaha.
How big of a risk? What are they risking? They have tons of money... Do they need to make 500,000 units? Why not make like 500 if that sells then make more etc

Re: Yamaha - enemies of synthsis!

Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 1:09 pm
by tekkentool
volumetrik wrote:
CS_TBL wrote: A new CS80 is a risk for Yamaha.
How big of a risk? What are they risking? They have tons of money... Do they need to make 500,000 units? Why not make like 500 if that sells then make more etc
because it won't make as many dolla dolla billz as a shitty home keyboard would.

Re: Yamaha - enemies of synthsis!

Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 1:13 pm
by CS_TBL
500 units are relatively expensive + add marketing costs to that (count with a thousand dollars per musictech magazine issue). And if there are 25 countries on this planet where you could sell such a synth, then this would be 20 sales per country. .. I dunno, it all sounds a bit undoable to me.. :P

I'm not sure what it would cost, but doubt the price would be anywhere near 'friendly'. And then Yamaha may think: "Hmm, would people buy this, or would they use CS80v/CS80r?"

Can you imagine Ford remaking an old car just because there're a few people who have an oldtimer club? It's not like you click a button, and then a car (based on a PDF) rolls out. Same with synths.

I'm not saying that CS80 technology or even style should be lost forever, but they'd put all that into a new (soft)synth rather than remaking a synth which is 30 years old by now.

Re: Yamaha - enemies of synthsis!

Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 1:36 pm
by ItsMeOnly
Allow me to add on this, because the reality actually wrote that scenario.

You know new CMI is coming out. Peter Voger rolled the idea of resurrecting the line using CC1. The price of a new system was said to be around 5-7 grand. When it came to building a few "prototypes" the price jumped to 17k. Obviously that let to wave of discontent among folks - there were harsh words involved. Finally Peter Vogel came out. Obviously the high price is not because this thing will be so expensive - the price is to fund the development and actually makes the thing DOABLE, unless someone wants to chip in for a several thousand grand (not a mistake) for making the project cost-effective. So the idea is that the forerunners will be financing the development of the machines available to the "general public", which will be basically the same specs.

Now, volumetrik, the catch: how much would you be willing to spend on a synth? A synth of magnitude of CS-80, with custom components and such? Now asks yourself what would be gross price of development of a single unit. That should give you an idea why there's no new CS-80 on the market.

Re: Yamaha - enemies of synthsis!

Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 1:50 pm
by tekkentool
ItsMeOnly wrote:Allow me to add on this, because the reality actually wrote that scenario.

You know new CMI is coming out. Peter Voger rolled the idea of resurrecting the line using CC1. The price of a new system was said to be around 5-7 grand. When it came to building a few "prototypes" the price jumped to 17k. Obviously that let to wave of discontent among folks - there were harsh words involved. Finally Peter Vogel came out. Obviously the high price is not because this thing will be so expensive - the price is to fund the development and actually makes the thing DOABLE, unless someone wants to chip in for a several thousand grand (not a mistake) for making the project cost-effective. So the idea is that the forerunners will be financing the development of the machines available to the "general public", which will be basically the same specs.

Now, volumetrik, the catch: how much would you be willing to spend on a synth? A synth of magnitude of CS-80, with custop created components and such? Now asks yourself what would be gross price of development of a single unit. That should give you an idea why there's no new CS-80 on the market.
they cost as much as a decent mercedes benz in their time, who would buy a 60,000 dollar cs-80?

Re: Yamaha - enemies of synthsis!

Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 1:53 pm
by ItsMeOnly
tekkentool wrote:they cost as much as a decent mercedes benz in their time, who would buy a 60,000 dollar cs-80?
Well, that's the idea: rich and famous! :) Less rich would buy CS60, CS70 and such, that came out on the wave of putting the 80's on the market.

Re: Yamaha - enemies of synthsis!

Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 2:29 pm
by Phollop Willing PA
CS_TBL wrote:.....

Can you imagine Ford remaking an old car just because there're a few people who have an oldtimer club? It's not like you click a button, and then a car (based on a PDF) rolls out. Same with synths.

.......
Wasn't there a Morgan car kit based on a 1950s roadster version? I used to see those all the time. Just sayin'... And what about Mini Coopers and VW Beetles? Do those count? I suppose to a lesser degree there's the PF Cruiser. And of course there's what Moog has done with the Theremin, Voyager (Model D) and all those little modules.

and don't get me started on Barbies lol...

Happy Halloween everybody.

Boo!

PS I'd buy a new hardware version of the ARP 2600 any day.