Interesting digital filter sections

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balma
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Interesting digital filter sections

Post by balma » Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:00 pm

I didn't include analog ones since all of them are cool :mrgreen:

But wich digital synths have the best FILTER sections?

I will mention two that I know:

V synth:
ther are very cool filters that are specially useful to mangle and tweak samples, like the dual filter, 2nd order SideBandFilter, Comb Filte, TVF, Dinamic TDV, Frequency shifter (nice for vocal samples), an imitation of the TB highly resonant filter. The section is weird, because effects are mixed with filters together. In this section you can find some other effects apart from the MFX, that are included with filters but they arent, like the polyphonic compressor, polyphonic limiter, the amp and speaker simulators, the resonator of the guitar body, wave shapea and overdrive distortion.

One of the most funny FILTER sections on a synth that I have played.


Z PLANE Filters: COMMAND STATION (E-Mu Protean romplers)

Now this is a totally apart whole new world of filters. The section for the Z plane filters is so different from the rest of programmation for the command station. Since all the parameters got from 0-127, the filter goes to 0-255.

The Z plane filter section is like an effect sections. It provides around 52 different filters, so fun to tweak, some of them have so much resonance with certain samples, that can easy blow your speakers (or your ears)

z plane filters acts on the Z plane, as opposed to the normative X and Y, and can change its function over the time We start with two complex filters and interpolate between them using a single parameter.

There are such bizarre filters there, like the UBULATOR, or the GYZMO filter. It turns the sample in something totally different. Experimentation here plays an important role....
Now this is my favorite digital filter section ever....

An inconvenient of the Zplane filters, is that it EATS polyphony. There are 2,4,6 and 12 order filters. Each one, easts poly according to its order.

I mean, with a single patch of 4 waves, with 12 order filters each one, could consume around 48 polyphony. So must be careful with chords specially. The command station is 128 poly, but on a complex sequence with several sounds with the 12 order filters, you'll hear the "slapping" effect when the command station can't deal with them.

great filter section.
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Re: Interesting digital filter sections

Post by Shreddie » Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:19 pm

Yamaha EX5/5R/7:- First you have the SCF (static control filter). This cannot be controlled by any knobs etc, it's basically a velocity controlled, keytracking EQ... Quite handy for some stuff. Then there's the main filter(s), the DCF (dynamic control filter). A fair few filter types (18 I think) are on offer here, you can have either a single 3 or 4 pole filter or two 1 or 2 pole filers in serial or parallel. They sound good and are great for mangling sounds but unfortunately resonance only affects new notes.

The filter section for the EX series AN synthesis are different. A much smaller collection of types but they're really very good and do allow resonance.

Yamaha FS1R:- Filters from AN synthesis plus a few more types... The only caveat being that using them halves polyphony. But having those filters on an FM synth as good as the FS1R? Brilliant!

Kawai K5000 series:- Quite possibly the most evil standard filter. Only three types (I think) but the resonance will fry speakers or damage your hearing if you're not careful. Then of course it has it's 128 band formant filter. Probably the most powerful and flexible filter on any synth... Capable of creating it's own melodic sequences when shifted by an LFO.

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Re: Interesting digital filter sections

Post by calyx93 » Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:34 pm

I second the V-Synth's filters - very nice - I bought the machine new and still find new uses for the filters all the time.

The D-50's filter, while simply an LPF, has a very unique sound. Resonance doesn't always do exactly what you think it will, but when you find the sweet spots (especially when sweeping) the results are just gorgeous. The "Spacious Sweep" preset is a very good example.

The JD-800/JD-990 has filters similar in feel/sound to the D-50, but with more types available. A very strange and unique resonance indeed!
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Re: Interesting digital filter sections

Post by retrosounds » Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:24 pm

Alesis ION/Micron:
So many it's almost impossible to choose from...
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Re: Interesting digital filter sections

Post by balma » Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:05 pm

retrosounds wrote:Alesis ION/Micron:
So many it's almost impossible to choose from...
How much do you have there?

I only hear good things from tthe ION. Almost no alliasing, great sound, and now filters.

About the Yamaha EX's filters, they are cool but not so innovative. They are almost the same on the Motif.

however, the filter CURVE is what I love the most. they are so easy to shape on high detail. When I think on Yamaha's digital filters, I think on swept pads. They are so good to create crescending filters on long stages of time, and the paramaters are very exact.

I mean, on f**k EMU command station filter envelope, you are shaping a curve. You add +1 to the attack level, and it's the same than adding +10, there is a range of 0-127 on the attack level, but it seems to be a fake. I mean, they are not responsive, the digital values does not make a differente between one or another, seems like a Yes and No parameter.

On Yamaha, seems to be really a correspondence between the value you enter, and the value you hear. That's what I love. And they are dual, and you press the filter button again, and new menus appear.
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Re: Interesting digital filter sections

Post by aeon » Tue Oct 27, 2009 12:09 am

  • Clavia Nord Modular - many types of filters ready to go, and many custom types you can build beause of the modular environment.
  • E-mu UltraProteus - true E-mu Z-Planes, multi-parametric control, and 288 of them to boot!
  • E-mu P2K - the later incarnation of Z-Planes, 50 types, excellent to bring out spectra from the wavesamples.
  • Elektron Monomachine - a unique base/width implementation that allows for multimode response and other trickery too.
  • Waldorf MicroWave XT(k) - many unique types, including a lovely (!) S/H filter as well as a powerful waveshaper.
  • Yamaha A-series - many types, some unique dual-filter modes, all with a present and forward character, plus 1-band parametric EQ!

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Re: Interesting digital filter sections

Post by Zamise » Tue Oct 27, 2009 3:37 am

Does digitally controlled analog filters count? RT Spectralis's filter bank is pretty interesting. Too much to go into details and I'm not sure I fully understand it, but defiantly interesting.

I wish I could say my RS7000's filters are interesting, but instead I'll just they are a lot of fun yet under exercised.

The Micron's are interesting? Didn't know mine has filters, suppose I should check them out sometime.
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Re: Interesting digital filter sections

Post by loungedumore » Tue Oct 27, 2009 4:05 am

Waldorf Microwave XT
12 filter types including : Sin (x)-LP( Runner up for fave ) Waveshaper (My Fave)
I had one of these for a few years .... can't go wrong with this synth ..... unless you only want stranded subtractive sounds .

Alesis ION
16 filter types emulating classics like moog , Arp , JP8 , Obie , 303 etc.
Note I beleve theses are in the micron / miniak
I keep thinking I might get a miniak . I always liked the filters in the ion especially the Obie LP12 , 303 , and -/+ combs . The JP8 was pretty thick as I recall as well .
I'm not going to tell you they are perfect or even near perfect emulations , but the have a lot of character and at 16 types a lot of flavors to choose from as well .

The ION/Micron/Miniak wins for me due to the distortion in conjunction with the filters .
Waldorf is like a Boss metal harsh distortion / Ion is subtle to a proco rat type overdrive .
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Re: Interesting digital filter sections

Post by balma » Tue Oct 27, 2009 3:37 pm

I wonder about the different variations of Z plane filters on EMU's protean romplers.

288 filters is crazy.

Basically, the modern E-Mu Romplers are pretty similar between them, most of the variations consist on the stored waveforms, making them special for certain types of music.

If I have enough with 52 filters on the command station, I don't know what I could do with 288, and if they operate different than on the latest romplers released...
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Re: Interesting digital filter sections

Post by aeon » Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:10 pm

(Most of) the Z-Planes found on the Morpheus and UltraProteus are true Z-Planes in that they have a third axis of modulation available, i.e., as opposed to the modern Proteii which have, e.g., cutoff and resonance, the Morpheus and UltraProteus have cutoff, resonance, and a morph axis, allowing the filter response to exist not on a flat plane of X and Y, but within a cubic space defined by X, Y, and Z - hence, a Z-Plane filter.

Also, modern Proteii have (up to) 12-pole filter response. The Morpheus and UltraProteus Z-Planes have 14-pole filter response.

Some of the filters in the Morpheus and UltraProteus are very subtle, as they were intended to provide gentle spectral variation to a wavesample, and were not intended to give a synthy quality. There are also filters in the Morpheus and UltraProteus that are designed to enhance brassy sounds, add grit to a string attack, and that sort of thing - enhancements to the "ROMpler" sounds of the time.

On the other hand, there are exotic filters that are not to be found elsewhere, modern Proteii included. Some of them absolutely excel as it concerns pads and atmospheres that sweep, but with a very different color from other synths that do well in that area.

The Morpheus (8MB) has 198 filters IIRC - the UltraProteus (16MB) has the full 288.

The UltraProteus filters are grouped into the following categories: Flangers (20), Dipthongs (23), Standard (26), EQ (6), Complex (119), Distortions (6), Vari-Pole (7), Tracking (6), Parametric Tracking (8), Harmonic Shifters (11), Vocal Formants (5), Instrument Formants (33), and Misc. (18).

Balma, I know you know the modern Proteii very well. I think you might be surprised if you downloaded the .pdf manual for the UltraProteus. There are many things in those older machines that cannot be done with the more modern ones. For example, function generators (looping envelopes) with conditional branching and 63 different curve shapes that include noise and chaos response. The fact you can freely assign start and loop addresses within the machine ROM so you can play back small loops for hard, industrial sounds, emulate sync, emulate wavesequence sounds, or even play back all 16MB at once (and backwards if you want!). Little tricks like that. ;)

Of course, the modern Proteii surpass these older machines in most areas, but the older ones are not to be overlooked.


cheers,
Ian

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Re: Interesting digital filter sections

Post by balma » Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:57 pm

Oh man thanks you really clarified me the point that intrigued me since I got the command station and started to deal with its filter section: the third axis.

I mean, I asked to Aaron Appolito (the programmer of the command station software) on the Yahoo group, how does Z plane morphing works, and honestly I didn't get it by his explanation.

The filters on the comand station are great, yeah some of them have such a high resonance, great for crazy timbres, I love high tonalities. But honestly, what I found, is a great and diversified variety of filters, that can act as effect, but with the normal cuttoff+resonance scheme.
Some of them seem to add a ringing effect, others, seem to add chorus to the voices, but at the end, they are shaped in the same way that you shape a filter curve on most of digital devices.

Weird but the cuttoff and Q seems just fashion names, because in some cases, the clarity of the sound increases while you move the parameter to the left (and I'm not inverting the cuttoff curve or the range of the knob!!!!).
And certainly in some of them, I add Q, and the resonance decreases. Exactly the opposite effect you were expecting.

Variety of waves for the modern protean romplers, is simple astonishing. I think is the hardware rompler, with the hughest variety available to choose from There are around 32 different ROMs.

But not all of them are usable under certain filters. With no exageration, I have throw my headphones a dozen of times, when trying to add a filter like the UBULATOR to some Audity samples. It was like adding +32 HIGH GAIN, putting the resonance to to 127, playing it, and then putting a microphone to the speaker to obtain feedback. Almost lost my ears... Some of them, are totally not compatible with some of the filters...

Yeah, but you read the XL7 manual, and it says z-plane from the beggining to the end.

but in the new protean concept on the XL7, there are bizarre things that you can done...

there are pink and noise generators, and there is a LAG called 4GAINX.
you add, for example, pink to the amp to get a "brrrprppggrrrr" to the volume, je je, it granulates. But you feel that is a granulation too digital and predictable.
but you can amplify the pink effect, sending it to the LAG1 processor, then sending noise to the LAG1 processor, ,so I will obtain a weird mixture from both, and then sending again LAG1 to the 4GAINX, and then, send 4GAINX to a parameter like, sampleloop, filter, pitch or frequency.

A lot of experimentation must be considered here, and bizarre results will be granted.

On the MP7, there is a wave on the ROM, that plays all the 1024 samples from beggining to the end! while you keep pressed the note.

Try to modulate exactly that wave (I think is the last one, the 1024, and itt has no category, just says "THRU") with SLOOP (sample looping) parameter, and obtain amazing results.

That's what I call the command station as the last cool EMU product. It stills having that experimental spirit, and a little bit of curiosity and humoristic way to do things that they had in the past.
Last edited by balma on Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Interesting digital filter sections

Post by braincandy » Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:03 pm

I know that the later E-mu samplers have Z-plane filters. Are they the same exact filters as those in the Morpheus and Ultra Proteus or are they more limited as far as functionality goes?
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Re: Interesting digital filter sections

Post by drsynth » Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:06 pm

Waldorf MicroWave XT
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Re: Interesting digital filter sections

Post by aeon » Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:17 pm

braincandy wrote:I know that the later E-mu samplers have Z-plane filters. Are they the same exact filters as those in the Morpheus and Ultra Proteus or are they more limited as far as functionality goes?
They are more limited than the UP - they are like modern Proteii filters, but there are less of them - no 12-pole versions, just the 6-poles.


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Re: Interesting digital filter sections

Post by aeon » Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:27 pm

balma wrote:The filters on the comand station are great, yeah some of them have such a high resonance, great for crazy timbres, I love high tonalities. But honestly, what I found, is a great and diversified variety of filters, that can act as effect, but with the normal cuttoff+resonance scheme.
Some of them seem to add a ringing effect, others, seem to add chorus to the voices, but at the end, they are shaped in the same way that you shape a filter curve on most of digital devices.
Yep, this variety is a legacy of the Morpheus and UltraProteus.
balma wrote:Weird but the cuttoff and Q seems just fashion names, because in some cases, the clarity of the sound increases while you move the parameter to the left (and I'm not inverting the cuttoff curve or the range of the knob!!!!). And certainly in some of them, I add Q, and the resonance decreases. Exactly the opposite effect you were expecting.
Yes, this is one of the oddities of the modern Proteii, and why it takes some time to find all the sweet spots.
balma wrote:Variety of waves for the modern protean romplers, is simple astonishing. I think is the hardware rompler, with the hughest variety available to choose from There are around 32 different ROMs.
Yea, but two things must be considered: 1. there are only ~14 actual ROM wavesets - some are duped under 2 names, and 2. the waves are generally short, and not so good for ROMpler sampler-style sounds, but do indeed excel for electronic tones.
balma wrote:But not all of them are usable under certain filters. With no exageration, I have throw my headphones a dozen of times, when trying to add a filter like the UBULATOR to some Audity samples. It was like adding +32 HIGH GAIN, putting the resonance to to 127, playing it, and then putting a microphone to the speaker to obtain feedback. Almost lost my ears... Some of them, are totally not compatible with some of the filters...
Yep! One thing that cannot be done on the modern Proteii is to adjust the digital headroom in the engine. This would help. You can do that on a E4 EOS sampler.
balma wrote:but in the new protean concept on the XL7, there are bizarre things that you can done...
there are pink and noise generators, and there is a LAG called 4GAINX.
you add, for example, pink to the amp to get a "brrrprppggrrrr" to the volume, je je, it granulates. But you feel that is a granulation too digital and predictable.
but you can amplify the pink effect, sending it to the LAG1 processor, then sending noise to the LAG1 processor, ,so I will obtain a weird mixture from both, and then sending again LAG1 to the 4GAINX, and then, send 4GAINX to a parameter like, sampleloop, filter, pitch or frequency.
A lot of experimentation must be considered here, and bizarre results will be granted.
Yea, using a PINK -> LAG -> OSCFINEPITCH is a great way to emulate analog "drift," among other things.
balma wrote:That's what I call the command station as the last cool EMU product. It stills having that experimental spirit, and a little bit of curiosity and humoristic way to do things that they had in the past.
Agreed. The Cords modulation is the key to those machines. Applying it on an EOS sampler is fantastic since you can use your own samples.


cheers,
Ian

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