Andromeda tips & tricks thread

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minime123
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Re: Andromeda tips & tricks thread

Post by minime123 » Wed Dec 23, 2009 8:11 pm

no time to read this right now, but tip number 1 from me would be to let the thing warm up for 30 min to an hour before expecting it to tune. after that, it tunes well (if youve got a good one like i now seem to have).
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Re: Andromeda tips & tricks thread

Post by elmacaco » Wed Dec 23, 2009 8:50 pm

I did some tests with the andromeda and my oscilliscope, and I can see the clipping with a fully open filter 2 or with the filter bypassed. I didn't notice any difference in the clipping point.

Single osc with sine wave the clip point is at about a value of 60, with both osc's on sine wave and synced it at about 30-35 each. Same with the saw and triangle waves, but single it is at about 53, and two combined at about 28-32 each. I can actually hear the added harmonics of the clipping on the sine and triangle waves before I actually see it on the scope, and with a single osc sine it is just in the last quarter turn of travel in the pot that it kicks in, so it looks like it was done intentionally. Once you start adding ring mod, sub osc and noise in the pre filter mixer, then to avoid the clipping you need to keep each level down and probably below a total value of 60 to be sure there is no clipping, but I find that I do like it in many circumstances and use it without knowing most of the time.

Also, for the post filter mixer, there is no clipping that I could see on all the test with the filter two output all the way open, all the different waveforms tested and osc combinations did not appear to clip at the filter output stage with just one filter open, but if you combine the filter outputs then you have similar rules as to the pre filter mix, keeping the totals around 60 to have it as clip free as possible, and this will vary depending on what you have going into and coming out of the filters in terms of volume ( a high highpass cutoff will not be very loud, etc.)

I caught a glitch that eventually went away, but when I was hitting the filter bypass button, upon disengaging it my post filter level for VCF 2 would snap to zero and mute the output, I wiggled the knob and got it back, and as it kept happening, I tested it and it only happened as well to the bandpass output, but not the Hi/lo filter 1, or the ring mod / sine waves post filter output. After switching patches it went away, but it was curious to note.

Good to know that the filters invert the waveforms, I had no idea.

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Re: Andromeda tips & tricks thread

Post by Synthaholic » Wed Dec 23, 2009 9:16 pm

pflosi wrote:synthaholic, what exactly do you mean by "inverted relative"? whether it flips the phase or not? here are some 2 more graphs:
How do you differentiate "inverting the waveform" vs. "flipping the phase?" I'm referring to the polarity being flipped, such that the positive part of the wave is negative and vice versa. I guess on a symmetrical wave it would look like a 180-degree phase shift.

That said, filters do cause a phase shift; to see this you would need to view a filter-bypassed waveform alongside a filtered waveform on a dual-trace scope.

When I say "inverted relative to what you expect", I mean, say you dial in a 25% pulse wave. When you look at it on the scope, the waveform should be "high" for 25% of the time and "low" for 75%. If it's inverted, due to the filters or your MOTU, you'd see what looks like a 75% pulse wave instead.
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Re: Andromeda tips & tricks thread

Post by pflosi » Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:04 pm

elmacaco wrote:I did some tests with the andromeda and my oscilliscope, and I can see the clipping with a fully open filter 2 or with the filter bypassed. I didn't notice any difference in the clipping point.
That is very strange. I'm not in my studio right now, but i'll have a check again when i get back tomorrow. I know I only tried it seriously with saw waves though, and I'm sure there was no clipping visible when going through filter2. I'll have a look again. Maybe it's different with sine waves...? I think this is kinda strange, so that would be a matter of my scope...?
elmacaco wrote:I caught a glitch that eventually went away, but when I was hitting the filter bypass button, upon disengaging it my post filter level for VCF 2 would snap to zero and mute the output, I wiggled the knob and got it back, and as it kept happening, I tested it and it only happened as well to the bandpass output, but not the Hi/lo filter 1, or the ring mod / sine waves post filter output. After switching patches it went away, but it was curious to note.
That's also strange. Sounds like some quirky software bug.
synthaholic wrote:How do you differentiate "inverting the waveform" vs. "flipping the phase?" I'm referring to the polarity being flipped, such that the positive part of the wave is negative and vice versa. I guess on a symmetrical wave it would look like a 180-degree phase shift. [...] When I say "inverted relative to what you expect", I mean, say you dial in a 25% pulse wave. When you look at it on the scope, the waveform should be "high" for 25% of the time and "low" for 75%. If it's inverted, due to the filters or your MOTU, you'd see what looks like a 75% pulse wave instead


that's more or less what i meant, positive->negative, vice versa, and thus the phase gets flipped by 180°... But this also seems to be normal behaviour of a filter, as you say too... I guess this was just a matter of me not really understanding you ;)

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Re: Andromeda tips & tricks thread

Post by elmacaco » Thu Dec 24, 2009 5:52 pm

yeah, the clipping is happening in the pre filter mixer, and happens on all waves that I tested, also with filter bypassed. remember that filter 2 goes all the way to 40kHz when wide open, if you are using a software scope your inputs might be band limited like ona soundcard 20Hz to 20kHz or something.

I don't think that should prevent you from seeing it, I'll see if I can record a clipped sine or saw and if it looks the same as it does on my old scope.

Anything else you want checked out?

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Re: Andromeda tips & tricks thread

Post by pflosi » Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:18 am

hm i checked again. on saws and tris, i can only see the clipping when the filter is bypassed. on a sinus, i can see a little bit of clipping, but way more again when the filters are bypassed. i can also see a little more clipping on filter1 than filter2, but again not as much as when the filters are bypassed. it also sounds different. that's strange.

does it make a difference in the sound when you try that? i found it to be most obvious with sine waves. also, which output are you using? i don't think it's a matter of my soundcard, since then it shouldnt make a difference whether a filter is bypassed or not.

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Re: Andromeda tips & tricks thread

Post by pflosi » Tue Dec 29, 2009 9:33 am

pflosi wrote: 3. last but not least, the filters can be modulated. in the filter menu, there is an option called CV SRC (soft pot 8). this setting is for both filters. you can choose FILTERFM, EXT IN or both (!!!). FILTFM is osc->filter. in the "wave" page of the oscs, you can choose whether an osc should go to that direction or not (soft pot 8, FILTFM on/off). so it's possible to have both oscs modulating the filter. notice that a waveform (or multiples) have to be selected to do get an effect. then you need to go to the page of filter1, and introduce the modulation with CV IN (soft pot 7), which is obviously also for both oscs.
I must correct myself - the CV SRC (FILTERFM, EXT IN or both) can be set individually for each filter. the amount setting for FILTERFM (CV IN on filter1) is for both, however; as is the amount setting for EXT IN (noise / external level in the pre filter mix).

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Re: Andromeda tips & tricks thread

Post by elmacaco » Thu Dec 31, 2009 5:07 pm

I haven't had a chance to check, but I was thinking about the different levels of clipping that you were getting with filter 1 and filter 2.

Filter 2 opens to 40kHz or so IIRC, where as filter 1 opens to 20kHz, I did all my testing with Filter 2 because of this factor, it opens up wider so I can see the clipping happening in the pre filter mixer. I think what you are seeing isn't "just" clipping, but the upper harmonics hitting the cutoff of filter 1. Now This may not seem possible with a sine wave, but as you raise the pre filter level, the clipping introduces distortion which may also be affected by the filter in this way.

Try it with the filter wide open, key tracking, envelope, and offset fully up, and see if it makes a difference, I will see if I can see what you are seeing vis-a-vis vcf 1 & 2.

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Re: Andromeda tips & tricks thread

Post by pflosi » Fri Jan 01, 2010 3:53 pm

What is really strange is that you see the clipping through vcf2... i can only see it just a little tiny bit on a sine. here's how it looks (filters all the way open, also keytracking and offset):

sinus, pre filter level 46, vcf2:

Image

sinus, pre filter level 100, vcf2:

Image

sinus, pre filter level 100, vcf1:

Image

sinus, pre filter level 100, filters bypassed:

Image

the clipping is visible in all of them, but best with the filters bypassed (also note the additional upper harmonics). on a saw, i only see it when the filters are bypassed...

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Re: Andromeda tips & tricks thread

Post by pflosi » Sat Jan 02, 2010 4:36 pm

A little off topic from the last posts, but I made some demos with the A6 and would like to share them with you.

None of those uses the internal fx on the andy (neither analog nor digital), and no additional processing or fx. What you hear is the straight andy output into my motu 828 (thus some are louder than the others). Also, I didn't turn any knobs on those, only the ribbon, modwheel and pitchwheel (as stated for each demo). All are one take / one track recordings, only program mode. Please excuse my poor playing skills, but you might get an idea...

A6 Strings Pad:

Already posted this in another thread. It shows the quality of the chord portamento (which time is controlled by velocity), as well as the lushness of this synth when programmed right. Also special is, the aftertouch controls the amount of vibrato, and the velocity controls the amplitude of the vibrato lfo (which is zero with very slow velocity) - kind of faking poly aftertouch. It's the only of those demos where i use a sustain pedal, and it makes use of all 3 performance controls (for the fm / noise thing coming in at the end).



A6 Dronepad:

Another huge pad. Shows the quality of the multimode filter and the droning capabilities. No performance controls used.



A6 Bass:

Nice bass. Shows how fast the engine optimizer makes this thing. Using the modwheel for filter cutoff. filter env is not triggered again with legato playing, and legato portamento is also set to legato. Excuse my poor playing.



A6 Gongs:

A rind mod patch. I love to play this. Ribbon for freaking it up :)



A6 Piano:

Example of musical usage of sync, fm and osc env. Roland approach to piano synthesis, I found this in an article on soundonsound (thanks gordon reid). Patch could be finetuned to be better... With the filter open this is quite harpsichord like, with filter 1 it can get really funky. But that's not in the demo... Again, excuse my very poor and cheesy playing. No performance controls used. This is very nice to layer with pads (think d50 :D)



A6 FX:

A whacky FX patch. This does not use any performance controls, it is just one key pressed the whole time. Try patch that :)



A6 32 Oscs:

Ever wondered what 32 analog detuned oscs sound like? Here it is (no performance controls). I'd never use that, but well, sounds kind of... interesting?



hope those links work :cry:

and hope if they do, you enjoy the demos ;)

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Re: Andromeda tips & tricks thread

Post by Synthaholic » Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:47 pm

Nice demos pflosi!

Here's a couple patches I made last summer:

This one I call Arppy Pad. It uses filter 1 for the main sweep and an arp (created by the sequencer) plays filter 2 in self-oscillation. The ribbon causes one oscillator's pitch to bend.



I call this one AnotherVangelis. The Vangelis CS80 signature sound is something I love to recreate on my Andy, and this is one of my better versions. It too has the ribbon bending one osc's pitch. But duh... I didn't include that in the demo...



I do use the ribbon in this though, which also uses AnotherVangelis:

Constellation
Two VCO: thanks to the push rods, one can choose several forms of waves at the same time!
(from a Babelfish translation of a Jupiter-6 site)

Yamaha: Motif XS6, TX802 Roland: D-550 Alesis: A6 Andromeda

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Re: Andromeda tips & tricks thread

Post by pflosi » Sun Jan 03, 2010 5:45 pm

Thanks mate, your demos are very nice too! Especially that arpy pad is great, superb programming! I never used filter2 only as sound source without sth going through it, now i will :)

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Re: Andromeda tips & tricks thread

Post by Carey M » Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:16 pm

shaft9000 wrote:By all means, use the individual voice outs through a decent mixer.

This makes it sound much better, as the internal summing device of the A6 is pretty bad, and the "voice panning' is a hit-or-miss modulation affair, not true discrete voice separation.

This is my #1 must-do tip, and it's not in the tips and tricks :lol:
There definitely is a noticeable difference in the sound quality when using the individual outs. Have not yet tried this with polyphonic sounds, don't have a mixer or enough inputs at home, but at least for one voice monophonic sounds the individual outs are the way to go. Just way better definition, solid low-end, etc. Like this:



My Andromeda beginner's tip for other beginners: Use the Force VIEW buttons!

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