Much reason to get a Little Phatty if you've got Minimoog?

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Re: Much reason to get a Little Phatty if you've got Minimoog?

Post by clusterchord » Sun Nov 29, 2009 3:48 am

if you already have a Voyger, id much recommend you combine it with one of the vintage moogs, for a different character, vibe and behaviour. if the original minimoog model d is overkill, go for a prodigy, source or multimoog.


they sound beautiful in their own right, and very different from both LP and Vyg. i actually prefer Source to both new moogs. but its a personal preference thing. Vyg has a modern, powerful sound.

a combo of vintage and modern moog sound would be very, very nice and cover a LOT of situations.
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Re: Much reason to get a Little Phatty if you've got Minimoog?

Post by Scories » Sun Nov 29, 2009 4:19 am

Here's a Multimoog for sale. Auction starting at 1075$ or 1275$ 'Buy-it-now':
http://cgi.ebay.com/multimoog-synthesiz ... 4cec362050

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Re: Much reason to get a Little Phatty if you've got Minimoog?

Post by Solderman » Sun Nov 29, 2009 4:26 am

Savitar wrote:how would i make some s**t like this on the voyager?



tell me that and i'll be quite pleased :3
I'll do this one for starters, just so you get the idea, but this should be plenty of info for now.

Remember the Voyager can't do filter distortion on its own.
Whereever you see "Vibrato", that means the Modwheel bus sends Triangle LFO to pitch.

0:00 Osc2 square wave is Synced; Use Pedal bus to let the filter envelope change Osc2's pitch
0:26 Osc2 tuned up a fifth, with medium-high resonance; Mod wheel bus assigned to filter cutoff, but no filter envelope
0:44 Synced square again with no envlope on it this time, but mod wheel changes Osc2 pitch(Source=ON) instead
1:01 Dual Sawtooth, low filtered; slow attack on both envelopes; Vibrato
1:33 Dual Pulse; pedal bus is LFO to Wave; moderate filter envelope amount with fast attack/decay, mid-sustain; Vibrato
1:50 Dual Square; medium-high resonance, portamento on; Filter cutoff wide open
2:10 Dual pulse; medium resonance; moderate Filter envelope amount
2:28 Similar to 2:10 but slower Filter Envelope Attack, and Filter distortion on
2:48 Pedal bus LFO to Filter cutoff; High resonance; Osc2 tuned a fifth up
2:55 Probably Square wave bass with no resonance, but lots of filter distortion
3:08 High resonance;Pedal bus Osc3 to Filter cutoff with filter envelope shaping;
moderate Filter distortion; Osc3 is probably a 4' triangle
3:22 Dual square wave; medium resonance; moderate filter envelope amount; medium filter envelope decay

Notice I don't always specify the pitch range setting of the Osc. Most are the same, or one octave apart. If they are the same, be sure to play with the detune quite alot to find a few different timbres. Also, if the sound you want is a lead, the Amp envelope usualy is maximum sustain with short attack.
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Re: Much reason to get a Little Phatty if you've got Minimoog?

Post by Stab Frenzy » Sun Nov 29, 2009 6:14 am

Savitar wrote:ok then... let's start at the basics. is there a website that gives a good explanation on the waveforms, oscillators, filters, etc... voyager for dummies.
This is a good place to start.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/allsynthsecrets.htm

Start at the bottom and work your way up. :thumbright:

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Re: Much reason to get a Little Phatty if you've got Minimoog?

Post by tekkentool » Sun Nov 29, 2009 11:22 am

Just tap the voyager. programming is absolutely the best way to get to know how synth's work when you're a beginner. it's just like Aristotle said we learn by doing. so do it ;).

this is a very cool and easy modular VST designed around teaching synthesis, everything is plain and laid out.

http://www.blokmodular.com/

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Re: Much reason to get a Little Phatty if you've got Minimoog?

Post by nvbrkr » Sun Nov 29, 2009 12:28 pm

Solderman wrote:Also on the Voyager, I can hear clock noise when I turn cutoff, while playing notes above A4.
Hmmm, I can't hear that myself on my RME. If it's more audible on certain presets, can you give me an example of one where it's apparent on your unit? Maybe that was the case on the older models? What I do hear on the higher notes is basically my miscalibrated second oscillator (the range of the intervals seems to react to room humidity and temperature). That might alter the sound considerably on certain sounds when playing notes above the fourth octave.

I do have to say I agree on the Voyager lacking on the highs, which is why my cutoff knob seldom wanders beyond the 12 o'clock position (it's indeed better to just EQ the sound to get more usable results). I'm not sure if it's really just the oscillators though, because what I am hearing on that video I'd rather associate with filter distortion. Older components just sound a whole lot different when they're overdriven, especially when considered that the Voyager's filter design is apparently IC-based (ICs tend to be a no-no also in the guitar world for distortion, just for perspective).

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Re: Much reason to get a Little Phatty if you've got Minimoog?

Post by maindeglorie » Sun Nov 29, 2009 5:05 pm

Am I really the only one here who rocks a LP & Voyager combo and thinks it's not overlapping? :?

The sonic characters of the Voyager and the LP are completely different to my ears. The Voyager has a huge, kinda spread out sound, while the Phatty is almost always punchy as h**l. The sync tone is surprisingly different between the synths too.

I own and love both. I tend to use them for different types of sounds. My basic leads, sync sounds, and punchier basses come from the Phatty. Where the more classic experimental tones come from the Voyager. I also have to point out the fun factor of the Phatty. It's simply one of the best synth layouts ever.

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Re: Much reason to get a Little Phatty if you've got Minimoog?

Post by Cumulus » Sun Nov 29, 2009 5:28 pm

Here is a good place to start. :)

http://www.vintagesynth.com/forum/viewt ... f=1&t=3534

Actually, the owner's manual would be the best place to start. They probably have some examples there of sounds you can program.

In addition to the thread above, try YouTube. Put in something like "Minimoog Voyager how to" and you should get some demos of people tweaking different sounds. The important thing is to use these resouces as a jumping off point and learn to program your own sounds. Eventually you will know what each knob does and how it interacts with the others.

So many people just dial up the presets and use them without ever learning how to use the synth and explore the possibilities.

In fact, when I bought my Minimoog Model D a couple of years ago I was trying to buy just a TR-808. We knew a guy who had no appreciation for vintage equipment. He had bought both of these instruments in the early 80's and hadn't touched them in years.

My friend actually bought the Mini from the guy and I got the 808. When my friend took the Moog home he became frustrated with it because he didn't have the patience to learn the instrument and he couldn't just dial up a preset. He sold it to me for the same $250 he paid for it the day after he bought it so I went home with two holy grail instruments for $250 each!

Sorry to digress.

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Re: Much reason to get a Little Phatty if you've got Minimoog?

Post by otto » Sun Nov 29, 2009 5:43 pm

maindeglorie wrote:Am I really the only one here who rocks a LP & Voyager combo and thinks it's not overlapping? :?

The sonic characters of the Voyager and the LP are completely different to my ears. The Voyager has a huge, kinda spread out sound, while the Phatty is almost always punchy as h**l. The sync tone is surprisingly different between the synths too.

I own and love both. I tend to use them for different types of sounds. My basic leads, sync sounds, and punchier basses come from the Phatty. Where the more classic experimental tones come from the Voyager. I also have to point out the fun factor of the Phatty. It's simply one of the best synth layouts ever.
Funny you say that. I didn't really want to comment but in a lot of ways a prefered the little phatty. Of course the voyager could do a lot that the LP could not and if you want to go into modular territory the voyager is the way to go. However, the LP just always sounded great to me. The overdrive circuit is lush and warm and better than anything I got from routing the voyager output to input (which sounded c**p most the time) or from adding an overdrive pedal to the mix. Using the LP overdrive judiciously could give the LP a warmth and make it sound more vintage. Even without the overdirve circuit there is something warmer and distinctly different sounding about the LP. I also am a big fan of the LP layout and programming method, it's just so smart. I'd dare say it is better than knob per function. Also having the indicator light for where your knob was set on the current patch was invaluable. If you want a non-complex moog for bass, leads and FX the LP fits the bill.

That said, I still think I would rather own something completely different if I already had one or the other. There is just so much new and used in analog I would have a hard time just sticking to moog products (except for maybe a new and old moog)...
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Re: Much reason to get a Little Phatty if you've got Minimoog?

Post by gd » Sun Nov 29, 2009 6:07 pm

I have owned my miniD for 35 yrs. now, I bought a Voyager AE when they came out looking to retire the miniD. I kept the AE for a few years but in the end it went and the miniD stayed. For me I just like the sound of the old gal better, the Voyager is one impressive instrument and I liked it better than The Source I sold once I got the Voyager. I never thought that The Source was that great a Moog but it did have some nice features and was nice an light. I ave only demo'd an LP but I did hear Geddy play one live and it held its one and sound just fine. I would think that the LP and minD would play very nice together using cv etc. I did this with the AE and it was great but I just couldn't justify the expense of owning the AE while not being my go to mono.
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Re: Much reason to get a Little Phatty if you've got Minimoog?

Post by Solderman » Sun Nov 29, 2009 11:43 pm

maindeglorie wrote:The Voyager has a huge, kinda spread out sound, while the Phatty is almost always punchy as h**l.
The Voyager can be punchy using the envelopes, although the dial positions are a bit awkward for it. Plus if you send the Envelope out back in to Envelope Rate, you make the slope much more dynamic.
Using only one audio output(I use the right one, and send the left back to Filter-In) removes the spread.
It also helps to not use 3 oscillators for bass. Tends to phase out too much low-end.
otto wrote:The overdrive circuit is lush and warm and better than anything I got from routing the voyager output to input (which sounded c**p most the time) or from adding an overdrive pedal to the mix.
You've got me there. This is the one thing that used to realy bug me. I don't miss it as much any more because I have your Polivoks, otto. :shocked:
otto wrote:Using the LP overdrive judiciously could give the LP a warmth and make it sound more vintage. Even without the overdirve circuit there is something warmer and distinctly different sounding about the LP.
I personally like the Voyager because it doesn't sound vintage. And because I can make warm tones like this:

nvbrkr wrote:
Solderman wrote:Also on the Voyager, I can hear clock noise when I turn cutoff, while playing notes above A4.
Hmmm, I can't hear that myself on my RME. If it's more audible on certain presets, can you give me an example of one where it's apparent on your unit?
I don't use the presets. :) I just get this faint low zipping noise as I turn cutoff, and only on higher pitched notes. Dunno what it is, but it kinda pisses me off.
nvbrkr wrote:...the Voyager's filter design is apparently IC-based
The Voyagers use CA3086 transistor arrays, very similar to the Moog Source, Prodigy, Rogue and MG-1. And I don't hear alot of complaining about them. :) Although I've read that using this filter topology, which gives all matched-pair transistors, gives a weaker-sounding response from being overdriven. Might explain why some don't prefer it.
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Re: Much reason to get a Little Phatty if you've got Minimoog?

Post by Scories » Mon Nov 30, 2009 12:09 am

That excerpt of yours sound very good to my ears; lush.
Sorry if my question is a bit naive, but if you put a tube ampifier at the output of a Voyager (or a good Minimoog emulator), will it sound more like a vintage minimoog?

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Re: Much reason to get a Little Phatty if you've got Minimoog?

Post by Solderman » Mon Nov 30, 2009 12:35 am

Scories wrote:That excerpt of yours sound very good to my ears; lush.
Sorry if my question is a bit naive, but if you put a tube ampifier at the output of a Voyager (or a good Minimoog emulator), will it sound more like a vintage minimoog?
Thanks. I doubt it, since really, which generation Model D are we talking about? The first batch also had matched-pair transistor ladder filters, whereas the ones manufactued by Norlin don't, and therefore sound different from model to model; the later 70's models have a different oscillator board, and none of them use tubes anywhere. And are you talking starved plate tubes, or full voltage? I think it's safe to say you could get some nice tones with a setup like that though. :)
Last edited by Solderman on Mon Nov 30, 2009 12:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Much reason to get a Little Phatty if you've got Minimoog?

Post by Alex E » Mon Nov 30, 2009 12:37 am

I think he should have started with a LP to begin with.
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Re: Much reason to get a Little Phatty if you've got Minimoog?

Post by MarkM » Mon Nov 30, 2009 1:06 am

I own the Voyager and the Phatty. There is a sonic difference between the two; the Voyager is more refined and the Phatty is ballsier. However, despite not having RAC or an arp, the Voyager is the keyboard I keep coming back to. To my ears, the Voyager has a wider sonic palette and is easier to tweak on the fly. As to the video, I think you can easily get similar sounds on a Voyager.

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