over-consumerism

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Re: over-consumerism

Post by balma » Wed Jan 27, 2010 4:48 pm

the more synths you have, the less time you have for them.

And that rule applies specially when you get them all on a short period of time
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Re: over-consumerism

Post by Solderman » Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:21 pm

Whenever I get the GAS bug, I tend to go visit Z's workplace and record myself playing his gear. :)
But yeah, generally I've gotten now where I'm content with what I have, and the ones that still look appealing are too expensive to bother with.

Besides, I need new tires on my Toyota, my dishwasher is broken, I need to hire a landscapist for the front yard, my house has no furniture.....
I am no longer in pursuit of vintage synths. The generally absurd inflation from demand versus practical use and maintenance costs is no longer viable. The internet has suffocated and vanquished yet another wonderful hobby. Too bad.
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Re: over-consumerism

Post by clubbedtodeath » Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:35 pm

Solderman wrote:I need to hire a landscapist for the front yard
Whit?

:shock:

Buy a spade, trowel, and fork and a barrow - and do it yourself for a fraction of the price. Become buff from all the exercise, score with hot chick and have money left over to buy more synths.

Sorted.

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Re: over-consumerism

Post by drsynth » Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:01 pm

tallowwaters wrote:Amen. Ironically, my gear buying comes from wanting to find that one instrument that does it all. It's quite obvious I may never find that piece of gear, so I am simply going back to my 3 synth rule, as in never owning more than.
Interesting philosophy, but I couldn't do that.

I buy a synth and work with it for a few days/weeks exclusively until I can find what it is that I like most about it or what makes it unique. I then try to create music just with it alone. Sometimes other synths sit idle, but it is a learning experience for me.

This gives me a distinct tool and skill for use later. I don't have the largest collection by any stretch, and I've bought and sold many things I wish I still had, but I am adament about having the right tool for the thing I'm looking for. If I have to trade or buy something to get what I'm going for then it doesn't work for me, although that is how I got what I wanted in the first place.

I tend to think of instruments as personalities that I can tap into to sculpt what I want. I get ~ 50% success, but when it happens, I'm very happy with it. About the only way I could be happy with three synths is if they were all samplers with all the great sounds I get from all the rest of the junk I have laying around. I'd spend all my time combing through drives to find it because I'm a horrible catalog-er. :?

--EDIT--

Hmm... I do know how I could say I only own three synths at a time - I only own subtractive, wavetable and FM synths. ;) Maybe someday a formant (FS1R) and an additive Kawai or NED. (I can hope)
tallowwaters wrote:Effects (especially delay) don't count. ;)
Gotta agree there.

-David
-I was a teenage synthaholic-

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Re: over-consumerism

Post by tallowwaters » Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:26 pm

otto wrote:Yeah, I need to get it back under control. My problem is that I find good deals and fixer-uppers to flip. That brings a lot of stuff in, most of it isn't stuff I keep but all of it is a distraction. To compound the problem it gives me more money to spend. So I start looking at the lowly gear I do have and I think hmmm, upgrade! So far I've been able to avoid the urge but it's there...
Oh, I never count that. I sometimes spot cool synths here in BFE, and I have to pick them for whatever small amount of peanuts I get them for, and sell them to somebody that can use a synth. Just my duty as a synth player really.

I can't really justify owning really expensive gear. After mixing down 2 albums with the Polar, I just realized I could have made most any of those sounds with the V or something as simple as a lower end Korg without only a negligible amount of extra work. Multi timbral? Total Integration? MIDI? f**k all that. So for that I am now down to V, R3, and whatever synth I get next (which looks to be a Nord modular) and a microKorg that floats around between my friends (hence me not counting it).

My problem is always wanting to rotate my gear to keep myself fresh. This is easily more of a personal thing as I tend towards a type of sound depending on the synth (always high piercing leads on an Evolver, mushy twinkle pads on a Fizmo) so I have to switch out gear to keep myself fresh, though there are plenty of infinitely better musos making interesting s**t with the same pieces of years.

I can say that limitations usually make for better 'art'. My best visual art always came from my classes where I had the most restrictions to work against per project. The double edge being that those assignments made a better end result/product, but sapped a lot of the magic/fun out of the process (my favorite part).
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Re: over-consumerism

Post by tallowwaters » Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:28 pm

Another sad factor that dictates my gear is form and aesthetic. I get pretty obsessive about things physically fitting into my ideal set up. The V Synth sometimes wavers on this plane because of that damned D Beam, which means it always wants to be top tiered, even though I prefer bigger things on the bottom...
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Re: over-consumerism

Post by nuketifromorbit » Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:59 pm

tallowwaters wrote: I can't really justify owning really expensive gear. After mixing down 2 albums with the Polar, I just realized I could have made most any of those sounds with the V or something as simple as a lower end Korg without only a negligible amount of extra work. Multi timbral? Total Integration? MIDI? f**k all that. So for that I am now down to V, R3, and whatever synth I get next (which looks to be a Nord modular) and a microKorg that floats around between my friends (hence me not counting it).
.
I can understand your disappointment with the virus. I sold my C because I just felt that it attempted to do too much and that the user interface was the result of years of Frankensteined together OS updates. Not that it was hard to use, just kind of quirky and nonsensical at times. I was using it for mono basslines and while it worked well for this purpose it was complete over kill. Best digital filters I've ever heard though and I can understand why some people like it. It many ways it was way too nice for me. I should have stuck with that micromodular that you sold me.

I'd like to ad that as soon as some c**p is straightened out with ebay, I'm closing my account there in addition to my paypal account. Besides I'm tired of buying used gear that has problems that the seller conveniently forgot to mention. For now on I'm only buying new, from people I either trust here, or instances where I'm able to try out an item before buying. I swear I'm going to straight this time :lol:.
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Re: over-consumerism

Post by drsynth » Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:35 pm

tallowwaters wrote: I can't really justify owning really expensive gear. After mixing down 2 albums with the Polar, I just realized I could have made most any of those sounds with the V or something as simple as a lower end Korg without only a negligible amount of extra work. Multi timbral? Total Integration? MIDI? f**k all that. So for that I am now down to V, R3, and whatever synth I get next (which looks to be a Nord modular) and a microKorg that floats around between my friends (hence me not counting it).
I'd consider the V as "expensive" as the Polar. Given the choice, the V rules. I don't own one, but I've always lusted for one. I do have a Virus TI and it is only marginally inspiring. For the price I think it's not all that. I don't use it as much anymore after having to give up the total integration for a USB port. Using the front panel is actually more trouble than I had anticipated. Sort of surprising to me considering the plethera of knobs and buttons. I just constantly get lost looking for hidden features I know are easily found in the TI screens and piling up multi's on the front panel is not nearly as easy as with the TI screen in my DAW.

I do agree on the R3. A great and vastly under-rated synth. I use mine for mostly the vocoder but it can be very useful for some rather complex sounds due to a good selection of waveforms, filters and effects to combine. Nice arpeggiators as well. Huge bang-for-buck factor, but so is the Blofeld (which I notice you're selling off).

Nord modular is a fantastic selection. That would be hard to beat for a small collection. Almost infinite in flexibility, but there you go with the controller/computer interface thingy again. I would like to hear your opinion after a few months with that machine.
tallowwaters wrote: I can say that limitations usually make for better 'art'.

Yep. That's the reason I like working exclusively with a new (or even old) synth. To draw away a notion of what it is useful for. I either get something from it and keep it for the long haul or decide it is nothing I can't already do with what I have and sell it off. Most of the time I can see what I want from a synth before I buy it, but I have bought stuff just to find out why everyone else is using it. Most of the time it is just another redundant variation on the same old thing.

I recently bought the FIZMO after having seen the well-known video from Crawlingwind...



This helped to convince me of the distict advantage of the instrument. It turns out that the tool is indeed very unique. I have been focusing my attention to learning as much from the architecture of the machine as I can. I have a first draft of a piece that uses six tracks of FIZMO and a single background drone from my P08. I'l probably try to eliminate the drone and replace it with another track from the FIZ. This exercise is just the thing I love to get a handle on what makes the instrument valuable. I already own 3 wavetable synths from Waldorf but this machine is different enough to keep it in a separate class IMO. Actually all the Waldorfs seem different enough to keep each one as well. Strange. Maybe I need professional help?

-David
-I was a teenage synthaholic-

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Re: over-consumerism

Post by balma » Wed Jan 27, 2010 11:30 pm

drsynth wrote:
tallowwaters wrote: I can't really justify owning really expensive gear. After mixing down 2 albums with the Polar, I just realized I could have made most any of those sounds with the V or something as simple as a lower end Korg without only a negligible amount of extra work. Multi timbral? Total Integration? MIDI? f**k all that. So for that I am now down to V, R3, and whatever synth I get next (which looks to be a Nord modular) and a microKorg that floats around between my friends (hence me not counting it).
I'd consider the V as "expensive" as the Polar. Given the choice, the V rules. I don't own one, but I've always lusted for one. I do have a Virus TI and it is only marginally inspiring. For the price I think it's not all that. I don't use it as much anymore after having to give up the total integration for a USB port. Using the front panel is actually more trouble than I had anticipated. Sort of surprising to me considering the plethera of knobs and buttons. I just constantly get lost looking for hidden features I know are easily found in the TI screens and piling up multi's on the front panel is not nearly as easy as with the TI screen in my DAW.

I do agree on the R3. A great and vastly under-rated synth. I use mine for mostly the vocoder but it can be very useful for some rather complex sounds due to a good selection of waveforms, filters and effects to combine. Nice arpeggiators as well. Huge bang-for-buck factor, but so is the Blofeld (which I notice you're selling off).

Nord modular is a fantastic selection. That would be hard to beat for a small collection. Almost infinite in flexibility, but there you go with the controller/computer interface thingy again. I would like to hear your opinion after a few months with that machine.
tallowwaters wrote: I can say that limitations usually make for better 'art'.

Yep. That's the reason I like working exclusively with a new (or even old) synth. To draw away a notion of what it is useful for. I either get something from it and keep it for the long haul or decide it is nothing I can't already do with what I have and sell it off. Most of the time I can see what I want from a synth before I buy it, but I have bought stuff just to find out why everyone else is using it. Most of the time it is just another redundant variation on the same old thing.

I recently bought the FIZMO after having seen the well-known video from Crawlingwind...



This helped to convince me of the distict advantage of the instrument. It turns out that the tool is indeed very unique. I have been focusing my attention to learning as much from the architecture of the machine as I can. I have a first draft of a piece that uses six tracks of FIZMO and a single background drone from my P08. I'l probably try to eliminate the drone and replace it with another track from the FIZ. This exercise is just the thing I love to get a handle on what makes the instrument valuable. I already own 3 wavetable synths from Waldorf but this machine is different enough to keep it in a separate class IMO. Actually all the Waldorfs seem different enough to keep each one as well. Strange. Maybe I need professional help?

-David

you bought the Fizmo after seeing crawlingwind's videos?

Je je!!! I wanted to hear that

I recently made a thread about the reasons for strong variations on the price of synths, and exposed the case of the Fizmo, and crawlingwind's videos. After those videos,two or three fizmos were sold up to $1k.

Price was $550-650 before those videos. I was constantly checking the prices on Ebay and CL.

And he subscribed VSE after he watched his videos here... :lol:


Rotating gear has his pros and contras:

PRO: sometimes you realize that you really were stupid doing those processes on those XXX synths, when you got a new one that can do the same thing in the 0.25% of the time you spent before.

The V-synth caused a revolution in my workflow. It's those kind of instruments that have an infinite learning curve. I blame the drastic progress to the overall V synth's concept.
Is hard to focus on a specific feature of the Vsynth, when all the synth is very efficient on multiple areas, and the
integration of them, means a new way to create music and work things.

Almost every feature, has its own dedicated hardware controller. That means immediate access to it.
But most of them, are duplicated on the touchscreen.

It's a fast hands synth. And its engine allows you to keep exploring new sounds, finding new applications, since the VA engine and the sample section are integrated almost in a perfect way. Samples can me morphed very easy, and the bring a new palette an life to the machine, if you choose them well.

I just miss a sequencer, and a decent multitimbre section... but it's a great investment



CONTRAl you lose a lot of time invested on knowing that instrument that you sold. All the synths have their own features, and they are always, very good for something specific.
I invested hundreds of hours on Roland's grooveboxes. I know them better than the back of my hand. But I get rid of them, since they have a very limited sound synthesis, and a low quality controllers overall.

That was several years ago... but I regret in someway, when I realize that there were some intangible tasks, that can't be done even with my best synths.

I really really went very deep on the pattern map feature of the roland grooveboxes, that one tha allows you construct a song with a single pattern that can be morphed on infinite ways with the pattern map, and I lost a big asset for my workflow when I replaced them....


About the FIzMo. I think that we musicians need some sorpresive elements invading our habitats against our willing.

That foreign element, can change our workflow dramatically. Is risky, but you can be rewarded enormously with some non-sense purchases. Can make you see things with a different point of view
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Re: over-consumerism

Post by Arturo00 » Thu Jan 28, 2010 1:16 am

Scories wrote: Btw Arturo, you have some great tracks (esp the first 2)!I came close to get a Jupiter6 or Juno60 too, but I've decided to get a Nord. How do you like the A6 compared to the A60?
Thanks Scories! But I'm really not sure what an A6 or A60 is, let alone their differences.

I would love to get a Jupiter 6 or 8, and a mini model D for that matter. In due time...
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Re: over-consumerism

Post by Scories » Thu Jan 28, 2010 2:53 am

Oh yes, I meant J4 VS J60 (Jupiter 4 vs Juno60)... that was confusing indeed!

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Re: over-consumerism

Post by CfNorENa » Thu Jan 28, 2010 6:06 am

tallowwaters wrote:I can't really justify owning really expensive gear.
Neither can I. I don't have enough time, this is strictly a hobby, and I'm only a middling musician (but I do have a knack for catchy melodies!). So for me, I distinguish between making music and having fun. In order to make the kind of music that I like to make, I could EASILY do with one older generation ROMpler (Triton, Motif ES) and one inexpensive VA (Micron, R3, Virus B, etc. etc.). But after a long day at work, and after the kids have gone to bed, I just love to noodle over a drumbeat and bass arp on my M50, or crank up the arpeggiator on the Juno 60 and twist knobs on the Prophet 600. If I forget to press "record," oh well. Still havin' a lot of fun. That said, unless I dedicate myself a bit more to laying down polished tracks, I could never justify the really high end stuff (or maybe I could :D ).

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Re: over-consumerism

Post by Automatic Gainsay » Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:38 am

I started on the low end, and was very lucky to discover that synths were gaining extensively in value as I was doing so. I was able to buy bigger and better synths by selling combinations of smaller synths which had increased in value during my ownership of them.
At one point, I had... hmm... I don't know for sure, but it was probably around 12 analog synths at once. I loved the look of that, but I found that most of them were used sparingly, and a few of them were used constantly. With analog, the ones you don't use are the ones which are dying, and that thought stressed me out.
Eventually, I was able to afford the synths I found to do what I needed analog synths to do, and it started to seem silly to keep the others around (especially for reasons like "I really like the way that one looks," or "I love the PWM on that one.").
I'm down to 5 analog synths, and only one of them is likely to ever be sold.
I agree with everyone who says fewer is better, and limitations are helpful. For me, creativity without boundaries is simply confusion.

I am currently living in England, and I only brought my JX3P. I am not an 80s poly guy at all, but I've always had a soft spot for the JX3P. As it is my only keyboard here, I find myself really digging into it... and being deeply rewarded. There is so much that can be done with it, and it has a great variety of interesting sounds that I would have never heard if I didn't have the time and focus to dig into it.

I say BUY BUY BUY until you've found the thing that seems to suit most of your needs, and then SELL SELL SELL until you just have that (or those) which suits (suit) your needs. Don't let price define what works for you. I would rather have this JX than an MS-20.
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Re: over-consumerism

Post by nathanscribe » Thu Jan 28, 2010 1:41 pm

I've got too many synths to be productive - and have almost ridden out my GAS for them now. I'd like a Voyager and P08, and could add to that list with things like a Mellotron (old/new/clone whatever) and a combo organ, and plenty of classics like the Prophet 5, Jupe 8, etc, etc. that I simply can no longer afford because prices have gone utterly mental. Wanting these things is not based around the sense of increased potential for musicianship, only the desire for toys. I like synths. I am not ashamed of that.

At least, I did think I had too many synths to be productive... not sure now. I've been more productive in the last month than in the previous six. I've not cleared space or anything, but have ditched my pretensions/ambitions of being some kind of half-decent musician/composer/whatever. I'm not. I'm a bloke who likes electronic music and enojys making it, and lacks the time to dedicate himself to perfecting it. It's just one thing of many in my life. So since forgetting about wanting to make some 80 minute pseudo-prog-electronica epic full of meaning, I'm just making noises, one at a time, and putting them together so they feel more or less right. I sometimes record things. I'd like to have enough of quality to make a coherent CD, but there's no rush.

I think they key for me is what Scories said earlier - simple tools. I never dive enough into my more complex synths to get round them, and so they sit mostly unused.

Oh, and the internet. Timewasting like mad when I could be reading how to use my gear. Bah.

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Re: over-consumerism

Post by clubbedtodeath » Thu Jan 28, 2010 3:11 pm

Automatic Gainsay wrote:I say BUY BUY BUY until you've found the thing that seems to suit most of your needs, and then SELL SELL SELL until you just have that (or those) which suits (suit) your needs. Don't let price define what works for you. I would rather have this JX than an MS-20.
I'll spank your MiniMoog with my MS-20 any day.

The maxim of simplicity is the best. Categorising instruments has helped me the most: what kind of synth for particular sounds - that way, when I know what kind of effect or mood I want to create, I know which synth to use with particular effects. This has become automatic, so now I concentrate writing rather than production.

Quick examples would be
- Low, bubbling analogue bass, or soft 70s leads, or ring-modulated nuttiness: the Korg.
- Lush buttery brass/string patches: Oberheim Matrix 6
- Sharp, abrasive digital tones: Nord Lead
- Pro One-type sounds, or complex drones: DSI Evolver (although it is capable of a lot more than this)
- Fender Rhodes goodness: Fender Rhodes Stage 73 Mk I. Ooooh yeah.

I think when I start getting synths that don't fill a particular gap, then I'm in trouble. Luckily my finances are unlikely to ever let me do this...

:mrgreen:

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