Real analog or VA?

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redchapterjubilee
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Re: Real analog or VA?

Post by redchapterjubilee » Thu Feb 25, 2010 5:16 pm

nvbrkr wrote: My prejudiced mind would probably associate those as 0:00 = VCO, 6:05 = DCO and 1:58 = VA, but I might be wrong. My Voyager can sound sort of lifeless or "VA'ish" on the higher frequency stuff, so I assume the LP will do that too sometimes.
The opening drone is Roland Alpha Juno (DCO)
Drums are Oberheim DMX samples sequenced through Reason
the repeating octave sequence is a Korg Mono/Poly sample sequenced in Reason
the melody that comes in at about 1 minute is Little Phatty
the 1:58 section's sequence is played by hand with Little Phatty - the repeating note is Reason subtractor
the square lead in this section is Little Phatty
3:15 bass is Little Phatty; the weird melody that fades in and out is Motion VST
the middle section consists of Commodore 64 drums looped and cut-up with Recycle/sequenced in Reason; filter sweeps are Little Phatty through Alesis Bitrman; some of the more obviously digital stuff behind it is Atmosphere VST
the hits bringing you out of the middle section are Fairlite and Synclavier samples loaded into Reason and played by hand
the Tom Sawyer filter envelope pedaltone is Little Phatty and Oberheim Matrix-1000 mixed
the brass in the 3rd section starts out with E-Mu Vintage Keys Memorymoog sample; then it gets layered with Alpha Juno and Matrix-1000
I thought the Micron was in there too but I checked the master session and the Micron is not on there.
the bassline underneath this section is Technosaurus Microcon II. I wish I had kept that box, as it is a serious bass machine.
the final drum beat is processed through Alesis Ineko's grinder.
All echos are Line 6 Echo Park. I'd love to look into an analog pedal at some point. My guitar player in my rock band just bought a Memory Boy and I'm curious to play around with it.
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Re: Real analog or VA?

Post by novielo » Thu Feb 25, 2010 6:22 pm

Stab Frenzy wrote:
Rangoon wrote:They're not purely musical instruments. They're just as much finanacial instruments, whether anyone likes it or not. If synth "A" returns x dollars from its employment, and synth "B" would also return the same x dollars from its employment (as a substitute for synth A)....then synth B is the better choice if it's disposal value appreciates while at the same time synth A's disposal value would depreciate.
My mistake, I didn't realise this was Vintage Synth Investor.
hehe, yeah!

keep in mind, that usually disposable value tend to be as close to zero as possible (or as a lost), because otherwise its return on investment AND its disposable value will be taxed (at different period in time).

so, synth B is obviously a VA. but, if synth B returns the same amount of money then synth A and B being a VA, by todays scales its resale value still drops. that makes the synth A a better option. on the other hand, if synth B, by its lower used value helps a kid to stay out of drug by upgrading is creativity, help is self confidence and develop his social skills. the inherent qualities of a VA, in this case, would make it more profitable to the society be cause of its positive externalities.

and if synth A, the analogue one, is high priced. but is being out of the dump and not RoHS compliant. what's the problem?

ps. please read my sig
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Re: Real analog or VA?

Post by projectwoofer » Thu Feb 25, 2010 6:44 pm

novielo wrote:
Stab Frenzy wrote:
Rangoon wrote:They're not purely musical instruments. They're just as much finanacial instruments, whether anyone likes it or not. If synth "A" returns x dollars from its employment, and synth "B" would also return the same x dollars from its employment (as a substitute for synth A)....then synth B is the better choice if it's disposal value appreciates while at the same time synth A's disposal value would depreciate.
My mistake, I didn't realise this was Vintage Synth Investor.
hehe, yeah!

keep in mind, that usually disposable value tend to be as close to zero as possible (or as a lost), because otherwise its return on investment AND its disposable value will be taxed (at different period in time).

so, synth B is obviously a VA. but, if synth B returns the same amount of money then synth A and B being a VA, by todays scales its resale value still drops. that makes the synth A a better option. on the other hand, if synth B, by its lower used value helps a kid to stay out of drug by upgrading is creativity, help is self confidence and develop his social skills. the inherent qualities of a VA, in this case, would make it more profitable to the society be cause of its positive externalities.

and if synth A, the analogue one, is high priced. but is being out of the dump and not RoHS compliant. what's the problem?

ps. please read my sig
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Re: Real analog or VA?

Post by madtheory » Thu Feb 25, 2010 6:50 pm

nvbrkr wrote: I know. Sarcasm died sometime in 2005 or 2006.
Sarcasm requires a certain speaking tone, which is obviously a challenge to achieve on a forum like this.

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Re: Real analog or VA?

Post by nvbrkr » Thu Feb 25, 2010 6:52 pm

redchapterjubilee wrote: The opening drone is Roland Alpha Juno (DCO)
etc.
Awesome, I got it mostly wrong.

I like the opening sound the most, although I've always steered away from the Alpha Junos myself. I got a EX-800 (Ploly-800 module). Cheap DCO can be apparently good for some old-sounding stuff. I really dislike the highs on the new Moogs, so the revelation that the part I liked the least was a LP wasn't surprising on the other hand.
Holy krap.

By the way, the SID chip on the latter C64 is different from the first. The filter isn't quite as feisty.
Last edited by nvbrkr on Thu Feb 25, 2010 7:22 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Real analog or VA?

Post by novielo » Thu Feb 25, 2010 7:01 pm

projectwoofer wrote:
novielo wrote: ps. please read my sig
Here's your MSSIAH:
some url
nice idea, the ps1 screen
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Re: Real analog or VA?

Post by projectwoofer » Thu Feb 25, 2010 7:49 pm

novielo wrote:
projectwoofer wrote:
novielo wrote: ps. please read my sig
Here's your MSSIAH:
some url
nice idea, the ps1 screen
There's also a guy who made a VST plugin (plus a standalone version) to control the MSSIAH mono synth and it's really cool!
http://www.kvraudio.com/get/4326.html

Actually the later 8580 SID chip is recommended for better compatibility with all the apps of MSSIAH...
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Re: Real analog or VA?

Post by Soundwave » Fri Feb 26, 2010 1:34 am

Autechre don't require the virtues of real analogue to do what they do.

AFX's music wouldn't sound as good done on VA's.

Horses for courses just don't expect one to be a replacement for the other or there would only be one Highlander.

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Re: Real analog or VA?

Post by Rangoon » Fri Feb 26, 2010 2:14 am

novielo wrote:
Stab Frenzy wrote:
Rangoon wrote:They're not purely musical instruments. They're just as much finanacial instruments, whether anyone likes it or not. If synth "A" returns x dollars from its employment, and synth "B" would also return the same x dollars from its employment (as a substitute for synth A)....then synth B is the better choice if it's disposal value appreciates while at the same time synth A's disposal value would depreciate.
My mistake, I didn't realise this was Vintage Synth Investor.
hehe, yeah!

keep in mind, that usually disposable value tend to be as close to zero as possible (or as a lost), because otherwise its return on investment AND its disposable value will be taxed (at different period in time).

so, synth B is obviously a VA. but, if synth B returns the same amount of money then synth A and B being a VA, by todays scales its resale value still drops. that makes the synth A a better option. on the other hand, if synth B, by its lower used value helps a kid to stay out of drug by upgrading is creativity, help is self confidence and develop his social skills. the inherent qualities of a VA, in this case, would make it more profitable to the society be cause of its positive externalities.

and if synth A, the analogue one, is high priced. but is being out of the dump and not RoHS compliant. what's the problem?

ps. please read my sig
No, you got it entirely backwards. Synth "A" is the VA and synth "B" is the real analog. Let me put it more simply. In retrospect, which would you rather have bought ten years ago....a Jupiter 8 for $2300 or an Acess Virus (the original one) for $1000?

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Re: Real analog or VA?

Post by Stab Frenzy » Fri Feb 26, 2010 3:48 am

Rangoon wrote:No, you got it entirely backwards. Synth "A" is the VA and synth "B" is the real analog. Let me put it more simply. In retrospect, which would you rather have bought ten years ago....a Jupiter 8 for $2300 or an Acess Virus (the original one) for $1000?
Please continue repeating yourself, it's very interesting...

Besides, comparing those two synths in a working studio: The Virus would be working every day, in tune, no problems. The Jupiter, because of its age would require a service or two in those ten years. Sending a Jupiter to a good tech would cost $500-$1000 over those ten years, plus the time it spent out of the studio it wouldn't be earning you money. So for a working musician the real cost would actually be much higher than the initial purchase price.

On top of that there's the problem of liquidity. If you're a collector you might have a whole bunch of synths that are worth a lot of money sitting in a room or your big house, but you can't access that money until you sell the synth, and as a collector you want to buy synths, not sell them. Also you should be factoring in the cost of insurance on your collection. So chances are you'll hang on to all of them until either:

a) The electronics all dry out and one day the insides disappear in a puff of smoke when you try to turn it on, rendering the synth almost worthless.
b) You have some financial trouble and have to offload them all to pay a medical bill or something.
c) You die, and your kids have a great big pile of synths to sell off, possibly for a fraction of their real worth just because the task of finding out the value of each of them and finding a buyer is too much of a task at that time.

Basically what I'm saying is that the real measure of the value of a synth is in its usefulness as a synth. A lot of people use the whole appreciation in value thing as a way to excuse the fact that they just want to buy more synths cause they like synths. Would you sell off a part of your collection to fund a holiday because you and your significant other hadn't spent much time together recently? Probably not, because there's an emotional investment in the synth as well as a financial one, and a potentially large investment of time in the future if you were to find a replacement for it in your collection at a later date. If it was an investment you wouldn't care because you can just buy another one later and make more money on it, like people do with stocks or property. The first rule of successful investing is not to get emotionally involved with your investment.

So don't tell yourself that you're an investor when really you're just some guy who really likes something and spends a lot of time and money acquiring more. It's better than spending all your money down the pub, or on cigarettes or gambling or something. :thumbleft:

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Re: Real analog or VA?

Post by pricklyrobot » Fri Feb 26, 2010 3:55 am

I think we can all agree that one thing is definitely a bad investment: the time required to read all 7 pages of this epically lame thread.
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Re: Real analog or VA?

Post by CfNorENa » Fri Feb 26, 2010 4:09 am

Stab Frenzy wrote:Please continue repeating yourself, it's very interesting.
And the pot calls the kettle "black." :clap:

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Re: Real analog or VA?

Post by Rangoon » Fri Feb 26, 2010 5:14 am

Stab Frenzy wrote:
Rangoon wrote:No, you got it entirely backwards. Synth "A" is the VA and synth "B" is the real analog. Let me put it more simply. In retrospect, which would you rather have bought ten years ago....a Jupiter 8 for $2300 or an Acess Virus (the original one) for $1000?
Please continue repeating yourself, it's very interesting...

Besides, comparing those two synths in a working studio: The Virus would be working every day, in tune, no problems. The Jupiter, because of its age would require a service or two in those ten years. Sending a Jupiter to a good tech would cost $500-$1000 over those ten years, plus the time it spent out of the studio it wouldn't be earning you money. So for a working musician the real cost would actually be much higher than the initial purchase price.

On top of that there's the problem of liquidity. If you're a collector you might have a whole bunch of synths that are worth a lot of money sitting in a room or your big house, but you can't access that money until you sell the synth, and as a collector you want to buy synths, not sell them. Also you should be factoring in the cost of insurance on your collection. So chances are you'll hang on to all of them until either:

a) The electronics all dry out and one day the insides disappear in a puff of smoke when you try to turn it on, rendering the synth almost worthless.
b) You have some financial trouble and have to offload them all to pay a medical bill or something.
c) You die, and your kids have a great big pile of synths to sell off, possibly for a fraction of their real worth just because the task of finding out the value of each of them and finding a buyer is too much of a task at that time.

Basically what I'm saying is that the real measure of the value of a synth is in its usefulness as a synth. A lot of people use the whole appreciation in value thing as a way to excuse the fact that they just want to buy more synths cause they like synths. Would you sell off a part of your collection to fund a holiday because you and your significant other hadn't spent much time together recently? Probably not, because there's an emotional investment in the synth as well as a financial one, and a potentially large investment of time in the future if you were to find a replacement for it in your collection at a later date. If it was an investment you wouldn't care because you can just buy another one later and make more money on it, like people do with stocks or property. The first rule of successful investing is not to get emotionally involved with your investment.

So don't tell yourself that you're an investor when really you're just some guy who really likes something and spends a lot of time and money acquiring more. It's better than spending all your money down the pub, or on cigarettes or gambling or something. :thumbleft:
I never claimed to be an investor or even used the word. It came from the original poster as below....
projectwoofer wrote:I guess this topic has been discussed before but...sometimes I wonder: is it worth it to invest (sometimes huge!) amounts of money to a real analog (VCO or DCO) synth or a decent VA (be it H/W or S/W) will do the job? ....
As such, I offered a single short reply to the original poster noting that real analog has historically gone up in value, whereas VA has historically gone down in value. Resale value is an undisputable component in the decision of whether to buy real analog or VA, and that notion is on-topic within the context of the very first post.
If you have any problems with the idea of "investors in synths" it should be directed to the original poster....

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Re: Real analog or VA?

Post by Stab Frenzy » Fri Feb 26, 2010 5:55 am

CfNorENa wrote:And the pot calls the kettle "black." :clap:
Pardon my verbosity, I was posting over my morning coffee and I rambled on a bit. :D It was less repetition and more clarification and extension though.
Rangoon wrote:I never claimed to be an investor or even used the word. It came from the original poster as below....
projectwoofer wrote:I guess this topic has been discussed before but...sometimes I wonder: is it worth it to invest (sometimes huge!) amounts of money to a real analog (VCO or DCO) synth or a decent VA (be it H/W or S/W) will do the job? ....
As such, I offered a single short reply to the original poster noting that real analog has historically gone up in value, whereas VA has historically gone down in value. Resale value is an undisputable component in the decision of whether to buy real analog or VA, and that notion is on-topic within the context of the very first post.
If you have any problems with the idea of "investors in synths" it should be directed to the original poster....
Pardon me. That response was a continuation of the discussion in this thread, not specifically about your post.

The tl;dr of my big post:
If you want to invest, the property market has historically performed well. If you want an analogue synth, buy it because you like it. :thumbleft:

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Re: Real analog or VA?

Post by druzz » Fri Feb 26, 2010 7:02 am

a good investment is a synth that will make you fell like you are somebody. plus if you have big names that are worth lots of money people will think you are serious.

an other thing : if you invest a lot of money on something, you will feel that you have a responsability to use it to some extent, wich cant be bad.

so it doesnt matter VA or analog as long as its expensive.

if you buy a 200 $ synth you'll be happy cause you had a good deal, but you probably wont use it much because its not "worth" the time you spend on it.

right ??

but seriously my friend and collab suddently got exited when he learned that the roland vocoder
(svc-350) someone lended me is worth a crapload of cash . he said stuff like : man we have to use that XXX$$ vocoder on a track for sure!

this reasoning makes me feel a bit uncomfortable but can i blame him ? dont i ever think that way ... at least i keep it secret ;)

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