tr-909 - sample based?

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solaristica
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tr-909 - sample based?

Post by solaristica » Fri Mar 05, 2010 4:20 pm

I just saw some Roland executive of the nineties saying on Modulations that great electronic music documentary that the TR 909 is sample based... Doesn't that disqualify it as "analogue" ?

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Re: tr-909 - sample based?

Post by griffin avid » Fri Mar 05, 2010 4:28 pm

I always thought (like most drum machines) that certain elements like clap and snap were sample based.
Where's the link to that video? I'd like to see it too.
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Re: tr-909 - sample based?

Post by kuroichi » Fri Mar 05, 2010 4:34 pm

The hi hats and cymbals are samples, all the other sounds are analogue.
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Re: tr-909 - sample based?

Post by roland4387 » Fri Mar 05, 2010 4:36 pm

Kick, snare, and toms are analog. All the rest are 8 bit samples.

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Re: tr-909 - sample based?

Post by Syn303 » Fri Mar 05, 2010 4:39 pm

The 707 is all sample based and it's the cheaper version of the 909, but the 707 is sound of chicago acid house though.
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solaristica
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Re: tr-909 - sample based?

Post by solaristica » Fri Mar 05, 2010 4:46 pm

So it's sort of a hybrid... analogue and digital sample... Thanks for clarifying.

Someone posted the entire movie on YouTube. "Modulations"...



About 8:30 minutes the Roland guy comes in... The whole movie is worth checking it out though...

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Re: tr-909 - sample based?

Post by micahjonhughes » Fri Mar 05, 2010 6:28 pm

There are three 8-bit samples used by the 909: one for the hi hats, one for the crash, and one for the ride. All of the other sounds are fully analog, including the clap.

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Re: tr-909 - sample based?

Post by kuroichi » Fri Mar 05, 2010 9:58 pm

roland4387 wrote:Kick, snare, and toms are analog. All the rest are 8 bit samples.
looking at your equipment list and reading this just confused me.....
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Re: tr-909 - sample based?

Post by nathanscribe » Sat Mar 06, 2010 12:37 am

micahjonhughes wrote:There are three 8-bit samples used by the 909: one for the hi hats, one for the crash, and one for the ride. All of the other sounds are fully analog, including the clap.
Top marks. Extra house-points could have been obtained by explaining that the noise source for the snare, claps, etc, is digitally generated using CMOS, unlike the 808, for example, which uses a transistor.

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Re: tr-909 - sample based?

Post by micahjonhughes » Sat Mar 06, 2010 12:54 am

I'll admit that I don't understand how CMOS chips generate "digital" noise. We could debate whether noise generated by CMOS chips or amplified circuit noise is better. Beats the DCO v. VCO battle.

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Re: tr-909 - sample based?

Post by nathanscribe » Sat Mar 06, 2010 12:56 pm

While a true analogue noise source is a voltage fully variable over a wide range, CMOS-generated noise is either up or down. On a scope it looks like a pulse wave gone apeshit - a seemingly random mixture of wide and narrow pulses and gaps changing fast. Sonically, I'm guessing here to some degree, but I expect this has a similar effect to mixing a bunch of randomly varying high-frequency square waves - which is similar to how the noise is generated for 606/808 cymbals (they use something like 6 simultaneous square waves at fixed frequencies).

It's not truly random though - the noise is a cycle that will repeat over time. How long it takes depends on the configuration of the circuit - the number of stages in the shift register that forms part of it. The 909 uses two 4006 (14-stage I think), with multiple tap-off points, which is about as close to random as I've seen a circuit like this get.

Some synths used an all-in-one chip for noise, which I can't recall the name of right now - it's in the Moog Rogue, for example - and that I suspect is digital, as the noise audibly cycles when you listen to it in isolation. Not a massive problem in most patches though, I find.

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Re: tr-909 - sample based?

Post by Yoozer » Sun Mar 07, 2010 2:12 pm

nathanscribe wrote:Top marks.
I thought 6-bit, not 8-bit. At least, that's what http://www.colinfraser.com/tr909/my909.htm says.
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Re: tr-909 - sample based?

Post by micahjonhughes » Sun Mar 07, 2010 6:07 pm

The samples could be 6-bit.

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Re: tr-909 - sample based?

Post by nathanscribe » Sun Mar 07, 2010 6:47 pm

Oops, yeah I'd forgotten about that. They come out through 6-bit DACs. I lose. :oops:

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Re: tr-909 - sample based?

Post by Computer Controlled » Mon Mar 08, 2010 7:04 am

Modulations, while fun to watch, isn't exactly the place to go to for true facts. As already stated, the HHs and cymbals are 6 bit samples. The rest is all analogue.
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