New Roland and/or Korg synths using REAL analog filters?

Discussions about anything analog, digital, MIDI, synth technology, techniques, theories and more.
User avatar
polardark
Active Member
Active Member
Posts: 357
Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2004 7:03 pm
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

Re: New Roland and/or Korg synths using REAL analog filters?

Post by polardark » Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:18 am

balma wrote:the problem with some labels, like Roland (the best example) is that they are getting very far from the people
Considering how synth hooks are more and more present in popular music I can't shake the feeling that Roland and Yamaha are painting themselves into a corner by neglecting the "real synthesizer" market. Korg less so. When all the kids growing up now want to make synth sounds, the major players in the market have little to offer.

On the other hand, ROMplers kind of make sense from a business perspective. You can get customers to keep buying your new products just to get whatever new sounds are popular at the moment.

User avatar
tyrannosaurus mark
Active Member
Active Member
Posts: 581
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 11:10 am

Re: New Roland and/or Korg synths using REAL analog filters?

Post by tyrannosaurus mark » Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:05 am

I don't get that, you hear ROMplers all over popular music, the music that 'the people' like listening to. It's just that folks round these parts (me included) love vintage s**t, and complex forms of synthesis. Haha, nothing wrong with it either, but I feel like maybe it's YOU who is losing touch. What's 'cool' and 'awesome' is not necessarily what 'the people' want. (and it's saaaad)
Moog LP + Casio SK1 and MT-75 + tube amp = good tone.

User avatar
griffin avid
Synth Explorer
Synth Explorer
Posts: 1568
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 11:08 am
Location: New York
Contact:

Re: New Roland and/or Korg synths using REAL analog filters?

Post by griffin avid » Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:31 am

I strongly agree. A person who is just getting into music (who is also your best customer since they are actually looking to buy stuff and not just find an excuse to appreciate what they already have more :? ) doesn't take much note in the difference between a Moog patch coming from a Voyager and the patch called Mogieness on their ROMpler. For all intents and purposes they are actually functioning in the same capacity. The few knobs they might have touched in seasoning to taste are the same ADSR/Resonance/Cutoff knobs on the ROMpler.

Let's face it. People aren't chasing hit sounds, they're chasing the sounds on hit records.
By the very fact of it being a hit lends weight to whatever was used to make it.
People will care.
Music Product: Better Sounds for Beats http://www.StudioAVX.com
Music Production: Resources and Research http://www.ProducersEdgeMagazine.com
Music Produced: Abstract Hip Hop Sci-Fi: http://www.TheDynamicUniverse.com

User avatar
tallowwaters
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 4998
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 4:11 am
Gear: LC-MS/MS
Location: snake's belly in a wagon rut

Re: New Roland and/or Korg synths using REAL analog filters?

Post by tallowwaters » Tue Mar 30, 2010 5:20 pm

griffin avid wrote:I strongly agree. A person who is just getting into music (who is also your best customer since they are actually looking to buy stuff and not just find an excuse to appreciate what they already have more :? ) doesn't take much note in the difference between a Moog patch coming from a Voyager and the patch called Mogieness on their ROMpler. For all intents and purposes they are actually functioning in the same capacity. The few knobs they might have touched in seasoning to taste are the same ADSR/Resonance/Cutoff knobs on the ROMpler.
I for one, couldn't give a flying fujiami about a boring, typical lead if it came from a real Moog or a rompler trying to sound like a Moog. The same goes for the Pro5 sync sounds, god awful 303 sound, lucky man lead, or any of that other claptrap. I mean, honestly, how many knobs should one touch in order to get respect from a real 'synthesist'? s**t, if were are getting down on people buying gear, I can make all the sounds a Moog can make by vibrating different parts of my vocal cords while positioning the opening of my throat, my mouth, and my tongue in different configurations. All I would have to do is sample these sounds into a cheap sampler, configure them chromatically, and then it would apparently be okay for me to heap judgment on whomever uses a real Moog since my method involved even more work.

I see far too much finger pointing at Joe Average and the general public in here, as though synths/music production/whatever is some holy grail, something should only be touched by those with some secret knowledge of 'real' music and 'real' instruments. I fear to think what music would sound like now if these dogmatic opinions meant more than d**k in our society. Likely it would be some Jarre doodle, repeated indefinitely, where we could marvel at the purity of tone created by 'real' electricity moving through 'real' circuits. I guess my consolation here is that are thousands of lame a*s guitar players and jazz musicians, laughing at how incredibly lame it is to play synthesizers.

You have people that hear those sounds and think they are 1)cool, 2)lame, 3)whatever, and then you have another group sitting around, heaping criticism on how authentic it sounds when compared to some 'original' piece of gear, despite the fact that all those instruments were created with one real intended purpose: creating music, something I think lots of people here aren't very interested in most of the time.

I do realize this is a synth forum, emphasis on a the instrument itself, and is thusly going to draw in lots of collectors, but at what point does one step back and realize that they all make essentially the same damn sounds, and that we are all merely configuring multiple sine waves 'to taste'?
Brains can be used like a "stress ball," but only once.

User avatar
Mr Knesh
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 228
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 4:06 am
Real name: Roland
Gear: DP/4+ because in order to dive in deep, you have to DP.
Location: Oregon

Re: New Roland and/or Korg synths using REAL analog filters?

Post by Mr Knesh » Tue Mar 30, 2010 5:33 pm

X(t)=8cos(3t)
Y(t)=8sin(3sin(t))

t period=2pi

You could draw basketballs with all of those sinusoids!

User avatar
Mr Knesh
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 228
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 4:06 am
Real name: Roland
Gear: DP/4+ because in order to dive in deep, you have to DP.
Location: Oregon

Re: New Roland and/or Korg synths using REAL analog filters?

Post by Mr Knesh » Tue Mar 30, 2010 5:47 pm

soundxplorer wrote:
New and Different is out there too. Did you buy a Hartmann Neuron? That was new and different. It didn't seem to be very popular though. Do you own a Kyma Pacarana? That'll get you some "new and different".

Companies are still dragging out new digital pianos every year, even though there was nothing wrong with last year's model. Fender just announced the "redesigned" American Strat, as if there has been anything "wrong" with their other Strats since 1957. There must be a demand for this, or else they wouldn't do it. It's the "new car" syndrome of repackaging something without changing it.

Yes, I would like to see Korg make a full-featured analog. I don't care if it sounds like their "vintage" analogs, but I bet they will TRY to make it sound like them just to appease the expectations of the market. And I want this to happen because I think they are in a position where they can make it affordable. Like, maybe a brand new 6-voice poly analog for less than $1,200. If I were rich I'd buy all the vintage gear I could, and be able to maintain it. But I'm far from being rich.
The Neuron is killer! Now if only they could take what they learned from it and drive it even farther. Instead of a single core acting as multiple, actually use a few thousand processors to get the job done!

I think you might be deluding yourself a little bit. The only way that Korg could release an "analogue" synth for less than $2k would be to make small tabletop synths similar to the new DSI stuff. Which isn't a bad thing. I think that would be awesome! But it sounds like you were wanting a full sized KPF synth. Which just isn't going to happen from Korg Roland or Yamaha, especially Yamaha, unless everyone of us that still uses VSE goes out and buys as many of the Monotrons that we can get our conceited hands on! Then proceed to milk the market for every new piece of analogue equipment released from Korg/Roland/Yamaha.

User avatar
soundxplorer
Active Member
Active Member
Posts: 280
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:48 am
Location: PA

Re: New Roland and/or Korg synths using REAL analog filters?

Post by soundxplorer » Tue Mar 30, 2010 7:08 pm

Mr Knesh wrote:I think you might be deluding yourself a little bit. The only way that Korg could release an "analogue" synth for less than $2k would be to make small tabletop synths similar to the new DSI stuff. Which isn't a bad thing. I think that would be awesome! But it sounds like you were wanting a full sized KPF synth.
I was imaging a more simple kind of poly, like and updated PolySix. Minimal modulation routes, no sequencer, etc.
I'll welcome anything that breaths some life into current digital synths. Even if they took their MicroKorg and put 8 of these Monotron analog filters inside, keeping the rest digital, that would be an improvement.

User avatar
diezdiazgiant
Active Member
Active Member
Posts: 253
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2006 9:32 am
Gear: a computer and some odd bits of junk and microphones
Band: jizzflap f**k
Location: Chicago

Re: New Roland and/or Korg synths using REAL analog filters?

Post by diezdiazgiant » Thu Apr 01, 2010 6:31 am

tallowwaters wrote:
griffin avid wrote:I strongly agree. A person who is just getting into music (who is also your best customer since they are actually looking to buy stuff and not just find an excuse to appreciate what they already have more :? ) doesn't take much note in the difference between a Moog patch coming from a Voyager and the patch called Mogieness on their ROMpler. For all intents and purposes they are actually functioning in the same capacity. The few knobs they might have touched in seasoning to taste are the same ADSR/Resonance/Cutoff knobs on the ROMpler.
I for one, couldn't give a flying fujiami about a boring, typical lead if it came from a real Moog or a rompler trying to sound like a Moog. The same goes for the Pro5 sync sounds, god awful 303 sound, lucky man lead, or any of that other claptrap. I mean, honestly, how many knobs should one touch in order to get respect from a real 'synthesist'? s**t, if were are getting down on people buying gear, I can make all the sounds a Moog can make by vibrating different parts of my vocal cords while positioning the opening of my throat, my mouth, and my tongue in different configurations. All I would have to do is sample these sounds into a cheap sampler, configure them chromatically, and then it would apparently be okay for me to heap judgment on whomever uses a real Moog since my method involved even more work.

I see far too much finger pointing at Joe Average and the general public in here, as though synths/music production/whatever is some holy grail, something should only be touched by those with some secret knowledge of 'real' music and 'real' instruments. I fear to think what music would sound like now if these dogmatic opinions meant more than d**k in our society. Likely it would be some Jarre doodle, repeated indefinitely, where we could marvel at the purity of tone created by 'real' electricity moving through 'real' circuits. I guess my consolation here is that are thousands of lame a*s guitar players and jazz musicians, laughing at how incredibly lame it is to play synthesizers.

You have people that hear those sounds and think they are 1)cool, 2)lame, 3)whatever, and then you have another group sitting around, heaping criticism on how authentic it sounds when compared to some 'original' piece of gear, despite the fact that all those instruments were created with one real intended purpose: creating music, something I think lots of people here aren't very interested in most of the time.

I do realize this is a synth forum, emphasis on a the instrument itself, and is thusly going to draw in lots of collectors, but at what point does one step back and realize that they all make essentially the same damn sounds, and that we are all merely configuring multiple sine waves 'to taste'?




people can and will use anything they can to put themselves above others. including the realization that people are so quick to cast stones. i am better than you for realizing this realization. oh what a free thought...

now excuse me while i go share with other equally minded individuals, this wonderful anecdote how, on the internet, i put an ignoramus such as you in your place
Image
blunted daydreaming

User avatar
redchapterjubilee
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 846
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 3:59 pm
Location: Arden, NC
Contact:

Re: New Roland and/or Korg synths using REAL analog filters?

Post by redchapterjubilee » Thu Apr 01, 2010 3:10 pm

I wouldn't say Tallow was trying to serve any of you, but if you take it that way then hurrah! Tools are tools are tools. People bond with certain tools because they better enable them to make something they want to make. The tool is not an end unto itself. I love analog synthesizers, much like everyone else who comes to this forum. But I would still be making electronic music if all I had was a laptop full of free VST's from KVR. And the lion's share of people who see me play live and buy my records wouldn't care less. At some point you have to realize that analog synthesizer fetish is as ridiculous as any other fetish. Embrace that ridiculousness. Now shut the f**k up and go make music for Pete's sake!
http://facebook.com/greatunwashedluminaries
ANALOG SYNTHESIZERS + EFFECTS + COMPUTERS

nvbrkr
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 812
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 8:14 pm
Gear: An electric piano and analog synths.
Location: Helsinki, Finland

Re: New Roland and/or Korg synths using REAL analog filters?

Post by nvbrkr » Thu Apr 01, 2010 3:24 pm

Not caring about the Lucky Man lead is just pure ignorance.

... okay, to be honest it's a terrible sound.

User avatar
diezdiazgiant
Active Member
Active Member
Posts: 253
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2006 9:32 am
Gear: a computer and some odd bits of junk and microphones
Band: jizzflap f**k
Location: Chicago

Re: New Roland and/or Korg synths using REAL analog filters?

Post by diezdiazgiant » Thu Apr 01, 2010 3:53 pm

redchapterjubilee wrote:I wouldn't say Tallow was trying to serve any of you, but if you take it that way then hurrah! Tools are tools are tools. People bond with certain tools because they better enable them to make something they want to make. The tool is not an end unto itself. I love analog synthesizers, much like everyone else who comes to this forum. But I would still be making electronic music if all I had was a laptop full of free VST's from KVR. And the lion's share of people who see me play live and buy my records wouldn't care less. At some point you have to realize that analog synthesizer fetish is as ridiculous as any other fetish. Embrace that ridiculousness. Now shut the f**k up and go make music for Pete's sake!


s- s- sarcasm?


i guess i forgot rule one of internet subtlety and humor - i need to place a "lol" both before and after a statement as well as a bunch of emoticons for good measure. :guitar: :dj: :keys2: :dancer: =D> :verymad: :help: :beg: :agree: :newhere: :facepalm: :spam: :geek:
Image
blunted daydreaming

User avatar
soundxplorer
Active Member
Active Member
Posts: 280
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:48 am
Location: PA

Re: New Roland and/or Korg synths using REAL analog filters?

Post by soundxplorer » Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:36 pm

redchapterjubilee wrote:At some point you have to realize that analog synthesizer fetish is as ridiculous as any other fetish. Embrace that ridiculousness.
I'd say that is very good advice. :D

User avatar
balma
Synth Explorer
Synth Explorer
Posts: 2848
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2008 3:52 pm
Real name: Mauricio
Gear: DSI Tempest/Prophet 08/Roland V-Synth/Ensoniq Fizmo/E-mu MP7-XL7/Electribe ESX1/Radias/Waldorf MicroQ
Location: Costa Rica

Re: New Roland and/or Korg synths using REAL analog filters?

Post by balma » Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:57 pm

Sometimes we forget that not all the people are synth freaks....

Presuming that you only use "real sounds" on your music, is like saying: "I didn't use any factory preset on this track" Does somebody who listens the track and is not a synth freak, cares about that?
His sex dungeons are rumored to hold hundreds of people in secret locations around the world.
https://soundcloud.com/balma

User avatar
Automatic Gainsay
Synth Explorer
Synth Explorer
Posts: 3962
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2007 12:22 am
Real name: Marc Doty
Gear: Minimoog, 2600, CS-15, CS-50, MiniBrute, MicroBrute, S2, Korg MS-20 Mini, 3 Volcas, Pro 2, Leipzig, Pianet T, Wurli 7300, Wurli 145-A, ASR-10, e6400.
Band: Godfrey's Cordial
Location: Tacoma
Contact:

Re: New Roland and/or Korg synths using REAL analog filters?

Post by Automatic Gainsay » Mon Apr 05, 2010 6:22 pm

balma wrote:Sometimes we forget that not all the people are synth freaks....

Presuming that you only use "real sounds" on your music, is like saying: "I didn't use any factory preset on this track" Does somebody who listens the track and is not a synth freak, cares about that?
I don't know about you, but I write music to please the masses, but I also write music to impress my fellow musicians. It's easy to please the masses... h**l, I could throw something together on GarageBand in 5 minutes that would sell if I had some chick saying dirty things over it. However, to write something which impresses both the ignorant masses AND the fellow musicians you respect, that's something to shoot for.
‎"I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." -Charles Babbage
"Unity and Mediocrity are forever in bed together." -Zane W.
http://www.youtube.com/automaticgainsay

User avatar
aphlux
VSE Review Contributor
VSE Review Contributor
Posts: 105
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 8:36 pm
Real name: Jeremy
Gear: Korg Radias/Access Virus C/
Moog Little Phatty/Korg TR Rack (combi)/Roland JP-8080/MS2000R/M3/Juno-106/MD SPS-1 UW MK2
Band: Hobbyist
Location: Killeen, TX
Contact:

Re: New Roland and/or Korg synths using REAL analog filters?

Post by aphlux » Mon Apr 05, 2010 6:27 pm

Automatic Gainsay wrote:h**l, I could throw something together on GarageBand in 5 minutes that would sell if I had some chick saying dirty things over it.

I couldnt help but to laugh at the trueness behind this.
Ill be the first to admit if it has a good beat and a chick starts saying dirty things,
I might just buy it.



A new marketing perspective maybe? :lol:

Post Reply