DSI MEK/Mopho = Pro One, PEK/P08 = Prophet 5, Prophet VS?

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DSI MEK/Mopho = Pro One, PEK/P08 = Prophet 5, Prophet VS?

Post by ZeeOne » Mon May 31, 2010 10:58 pm

I would so love for Dave Smith Instruments' next big project to be an update on the Sequential Circuits Prophet VS. It seems like Dave's built a more stable version of Sequential with DSI, and each of their products has been an update of SC's. Plus, vector synthesis has been all but abandoned and it's a shame, because it can produce some very interesting sonic textures. I know today people looking for out there audio would rather just play Absynth with a MIDI controller hooked up to a laptop or just the laptop (oh, don't get me started on laptop performers), and you can get vector synthesis capabilities from a Korg OASYS if you can shell out that much, but it would be nice to see a modern version of the Sequential Prophet VS, Korg Wavestation, or Yamaha SY-series in a self contained keyboard with a joystick...

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Re: DSI MEK/Mopho = Pro One, PEK/P08 = Prophet 5, Prophet VS

Post by b3groover » Tue Jun 01, 2010 1:07 am

It would indeed be cool if Dave Smith went back to vector synthesis eventually. I just picked up the Mopho Keyboard and I'm having a blast with it. It augments my Voyager perfectly. Can't wait to grab a Tetra for some polyphony.

The biggest oversight in the Wavestation is the lack of resonant filters. If DSI did a vector synth and included some serious filters in it (perhaps even digitally controlled analog filters?) that would be kick-a*s.

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Re: DSI MEK/Mopho = Pro One, PEK/P08 = Prophet 5, Prophet VS

Post by meatballfulton » Tue Jun 01, 2010 1:42 am

The biggest oversight in the Wavestation is the lack of resonant filters.
Hardly an oversight, nobody was doing resonant digital filters back then as the CPU power needed was still too expensive. That's why most of the "wavetable" synths (Ensoniq VFX family, PPGs, etc.) included resonant waves that could be swept through.

Vector synthesis isn't really a synthesis type anyway, it mainly involves modulating the mixing of oscillators which is still an unusual feature even though it can be seen at least as far back as the Ensoniq ESQ-1 nearly a quarter century ago.
I would so love for Dave Smith Instruments' next big project to be an update on the Sequential Circuits Prophet VS.
As far as reviving the VS itself, the Evolver digital oscillators come with the original VS wavetables (still proudly 12 bit) which can be swept in a crude fashion by the sequencer. Over the years many DSI fans have asked for smoother modulation of the waves but apparently it's not possible...it would be fun to see an Evolver Mk II with more sophisticated wavetable features.

BTW, it doesn't seem like many people bother with loading their own waves into the Evolver although this is possible.
I know today people looking for out there audio would rather just play Absynth with a MIDI controller hooked up to a laptop
I'd love to see a hardware synth that could do what Absynth does. In the meantime, for a $200 program it's pretty slick.
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Re: DSI MEK/Mopho = Pro One, PEK/P08 = Prophet 5, Prophet VS

Post by Stab Frenzy » Tue Jun 01, 2010 2:34 am

Actually, MEK = MEK, PEK = PEK, P08 = P08. I don't think anyone could say the Evolver is an update of the Pro One, it's actually got more in common with the VS. The Evolvers were made as an attempt to move forward and make the next generation of synths, rather than look back and copy what had already been done. If you look at the original press releases and ads you'll see that.

You can do a kind of half cheating VS sound on the Evolvers, assign the mod wheel to Osc 3 level and then use the mod matrix to assign it inversely to Osc 4 and you can use it to mix between the two, or you can use envelopes or LFOs in the same way. You only get one dimension of change unlike the two on the VS, but if you combine it with the wave sequencing and step the sequencer with each key press you can get a whole lot of interesting sounds out of it.

I'd really like to see an Evolver II from DSI as well, with sweepable wavetables and longer user samples. They could ditch the analogue oscillators for all I care, they're not all that exciting and people who want analogue can get a Mopho. It not only would be awesome, but it'd be a good division of their product range as well, and you might end up seeing people with a Mopho as well as an Evolver II.

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Re: DSI MEK/Mopho = Pro One, PEK/P08 = Prophet 5, Prophet VS

Post by b3groover » Tue Jun 01, 2010 2:36 am

The Yamaha SY77, which was released in 1989, has resonant filters that sound killer.

I posted this sample in another thread of some patches I'm creating with the SY77 based on the Studio Electronics ATC-x. This is the SY77 and it's filters in their unabashed, un-FX'd glory. :)


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Re: DSI MEK/Mopho = Pro One, PEK/P08 = Prophet 5, Prophet VS

Post by Solderman » Tue Jun 01, 2010 3:33 am

Just wanted to add that for Vector Synthesis in the realm of the Prophet VS, I've been happier with the free VSTI Antti Augur than even Arturia's Prophet V. I even like the filter.
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Re: DSI MEK/Mopho = Pro One, PEK/P08 = Prophet 5, Prophet VS

Post by kuroichi » Tue Jun 01, 2010 9:13 am

I'm all for a new vector synth. But please, lets not ask for an 'evolver II'. The world has enough sequels already. I'd much rather see a new synth, separate from previous models.
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Re: DSI MEK/Mopho = Pro One, PEK/P08 = Prophet 5, Prophet VS

Post by cartesia » Tue Jun 01, 2010 3:19 pm

I was under the impression vector synthesis was just wavetable synthesis with a joystick :lol: (well.. you get what I mean.. its just about different ways of working with wavetables)

maybe we just need a (re)evolution in the ideas of modulation possibilities (and realtime controllers too).. it's all become very standard and plain, even in the synths with better modulation options.. its all very linear for the most part. Work on that, then throw in multidimensional wavetables and things would start getting interesting.

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Re: DSI MEK/Mopho = Pro One, PEK/P08 = Prophet 5, Prophet VS

Post by Joey » Tue Jun 01, 2010 4:49 pm

kuroichi wrote:I'm all for a new vector synth. But please, lets not ask for an 'evolver II'. The world has enough sequels already. I'd much rather see a new synth, separate from previous models.
so if he named it something completely different, but kept stab's same feature requests, would that make you happy?

what a f**k ridiculous comment
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so you just stay home and play synthesizers.

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Re: DSI MEK/Mopho = Pro One, PEK/P08 = Prophet 5, Prophet VS

Post by meatballfulton » Tue Jun 01, 2010 6:42 pm

cartesia wrote:I was under the impression vector synthesis was just wavetable synthesis with a joystick
In the Yamaha SY22/TG33/SY35 it wasn't even that...you could morph between two sample playback sounds and two FM sources...no wavetable sweeping at all, while the Ensoniq VFX family had sweepable wavetables ("transwaves") but no joystick.

The Roland D-50 had a joystick to morph between "tones" but no ability to record/modulate the joystick motion and the other LA synths (MT32, D-110, etc.) had no joystick at all.
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Re: DSI MEK/Mopho = Pro One, PEK/P08 = Prophet 5, Prophet VS

Post by SubliminalEffect » Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:21 am

for a modern update on the Prophet VS, you may want to check out John Bowen's Solaris synthesizer which is due to ship any month now.

one of the oscillator types that it models are the wave cycles of the Prophet VS. if i recall correctly from conversation, it was John Bowen himself who defined all of those wave cycles originally for the Prophet VS. among the (resonant) filter types modeled in the Solaris is the CEM (as well as the SSM of Prophet 5 revs 1 and 2). there are also four(!) separate vector mixers among all the other mixers and numerous possible modulation routings. Solaris also has a joystick controller as you would expect from someone closely associated with both the VS and later, the Wavestation.

of course, companies have claimed their modern digital recreations are modeled after certain vintage synths or components even though the resulting product didn't actually sound like what it was modeled from (hey Arturia, i'm talkin' about you). if you spend any amount of time speaking with John Bowen though, you'll appreciate the man knows the intricacies of the Sequential synthesizers and especially, how to program them. again, if i recall correctly from conversation, he did pretty much all the factory programming for all of their synthesizers.

i had the opportunity to try out a Solaris prototype at the NAMM show in January and as a Prophet VS Rack owner, i can say it can certainly do a credible modern Prophet VS. from what i tried out, the main caveats that i noted were that not all of the Prophet VS wave cycles were available then (enough of a selection of them for testing purposes) and the inherent noise/grunge of twenty plus years of analogue circuitry were missing. the latter may be a deal-breaker for those who are after the absolute authenticity of a twenty plus year Prophet VS - it isn't to me because if i want the noise/grunge, i still have the real thing.

on the modern update side of the equation for Solaris is the flexibility to mix those Prophet VS wave cycles with other oscillator types like a Waldorf WaveTable sweep or modeled CEM wave shapes or sample playback to feed a modeled CEM filter (or a SSM or MiniMoog ladder or Oberheim SVF or a combination of these in series or parallel) plus vector mix, step sequence, arpeggiate, loop, lag, modulate, feedback audio outputs to filter inputs, joystick, ribbon control, etc.

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Re: DSI MEK/Mopho = Pro One, PEK/P08 = Prophet 5, Prophet VS

Post by SubliminalEffect » Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:30 am

b3groover wrote:I posted this sample in another thread of some patches I'm creating with the SY77 based on the Studio Electronics ATC-x. This is the SY77 and it's filters in their unabashed, un-FX'd glory. :)
nice work at the end of the track - very mellifluous.

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Re: DSI MEK/Mopho = Pro One, PEK/P08 = Prophet 5, Prophet VS

Post by kuroichi » Thu Jun 03, 2010 10:52 am

Joey wrote:
kuroichi wrote:I'm all for a new vector synth. But please, lets not ask for an 'evolver II'. The world has enough sequels already. I'd much rather see a new synth, separate from previous models.
so if he named it something completely different, but kept stab's same feature requests, would that make you happy?

what a f**k ridiculous comment
Who said anything about the name, I'm saying I'd rather see something new, rather than an updated evolver, you f**k reprobate...
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Re: DSI MEK/Mopho = Pro One, PEK/P08 = Prophet 5, Prophet VS

Post by Joey » Thu Jun 03, 2010 3:39 pm

Good diction.

So what would you like to see in this all new synth then?
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so you just stay home and play synthesizers.

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Re: DSI MEK/Mopho = Pro One, PEK/P08 = Prophet 5, Prophet VS

Post by masstronaut » Thu Jun 03, 2010 4:03 pm

I want to be able to modulate the mod slot amounts like what you can on the prophet/mopho/tetra series. And for the silly bugs to be fixed. And an arp on the DEVO.

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