A guitarists perspective on old vs new synths :)

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theVOID
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A guitarists perspective on old vs new synths :)

Post by theVOID » Thu Jun 17, 2010 2:03 pm

Second post from a new member here :)

I have read several posts here and in other places regarding old vs new gear, analog vs va, and that stuff.
My intention is not to start a thread on that particular subject, I use all kinds of soundgenerating and musicgenerating gear myself.
But as a guitarist I have to make an observation:

Why is there a debate at all?
In the guitar community people dont say
"Why are you using old guitars when new cool ones are much cheaper and sound great too?"

Sure there are some old jazz and blues fanatics that insist that only old Fenders/Gibsons are worth using, but in general, the consesus seems to be that how you personally interact with YOUR guitar/s is the primary factor.
Then there is a lot of nerdiness with regards to tubes, pickups etc, but everyone KNOWS that stuff sound different,its up to each person if it matters or not, but there are no debates in the same way it seems to be with synths.

If I get a certain feeling from playing my old 69 fender Mustang and it makes me feel good playing and recording it, then what is the issue? I dont insist that it is superior to all modern gear even though it does sound amazing due to its vintage aging, just a small dial on the EQ makes my modern jaguar sound very similar.

If anything, old guitars are revered by all guitarist, even if they dont use them for practical and financial reasons.
Belive me, the most expensive vintage synths are very cheap compared to vintage guitars ;)

And its far easier to emulate a Gibson Les Paul with a new produc than a ARP 2600.
Even though that new "vintage classic" Gibson will still cost far more than a vintage 2600.. ;)

This synth debate on "why do you use old synths when the VSTS's sound the same" is weird to me.
Yes, the VST's sound almost the same, and in some cases exactly the same and in many cases "better".
But...to me its about playing an instrument and getting inspired.

After all, we are MAKING music, a verb, something you do with your hands.
I tend to prefer the ergonomics of synths with knobs, be them Clavia or Moog when I "work".
Some prefer Reason and the mouse, which I also use btw.

Ok, maybe a dead horse. I just thought I throw in the perspective of a guitarist.
And a question:
Why is there a debate at all :)?!
Do people really get that personal on this subject?

PS: I also made a small "shootout" between a Minimoog and an Alesis ION in the "shootout" form :)

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Re: A guitarists perspective on old vs new synths :)

Post by invisibleairwaves » Thu Jun 17, 2010 3:11 pm

You can buy a brand-new Les Paul or Strat or Jaguar, but you can't buy a new 2600 or MS-20 or OB-X. I think that's the source of a lot of the debates...with guitars, you'd be debating old vs. new versions of the same model. With synths, you're debating completely different models, where the unique character of each instrument is more striking. Guitars are apples vs. apples, and synths are apples vs. oranges.
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Re: A guitarists perspective on old vs new synths :)

Post by nvbrkr » Thu Jun 17, 2010 8:14 pm

theVOID wrote: Why is there a debate at all :)?!
There really isn't much of a debate. Most agree that the old synths sound better.

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Re: A guitarists perspective on old vs new synths :)

Post by CS_TBL » Thu Jun 17, 2010 8:44 pm

.. must.. resist.. :lol:
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Re: A guitarists perspective on old vs new synths :)

Post by hfinn » Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:29 pm

invisibleairwaves wrote:You can buy a brand-new Les Paul or Strat or Jaguar, but you can't buy a new 2600 or MS-20 or OB-X. I think that's the source of a lot of the debates...with guitars, you'd be debating old vs. new versions of the same model. With synths, you're debating completely different models, where the unique character of each instrument is more striking. Guitars are apples vs. apples, and synths are apples vs. oranges.
that's not entirely true. Yes they still make less pauls but specs change. Neck radius, wood, chambered, weight, frets, pots, pickups etc all can change. You can have two Les Pauls from the same year that sound quite different.

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Re: A guitarists perspective on old vs new synths :)

Post by griffin avid » Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:02 pm

I think a guy with a bunch of guitars is still a guitarist. And a guy with a bunch of synths/keyboards is probably some kind of producer or artist that makes entire songs/instrumentals.

A synth/keyboard is capable of doing all the parts of a song -drums and music and thus when we speak about old verse new gear it's more than a consideration for a single element in the song. "Bands" on a whole argue about digital verse analogue recording since that affects their entire sound.

Guitarists are certainly anal about their choice of ax/axe and you can check any guitar forum to see huge threads and flame wars about who, what, when and where. There isn't a software guitar VST hooked up to a MIDI guitar-shaped controller being passed off as the same as a Gibson/Strat.

IK Multimedia has a new amp sim that plugs into your iPhone. I don't know how guitarists will react. Some like the Line 6 stuff and some think it's sacriledge to do anything besides put a mic in front of a cabinet.

I also don't know if marketing plays a part in this. I never seen an ad for other types of products that makes the same claims that software driven companies do. I've never read anything more offensive than one of the earlier Propellerheads Reason manuals.
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Re: A guitarists perspective on old vs new synths :)

Post by space6oy » Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:05 pm

invisibleairwaves wrote:You can buy a brand-new Les Paul or Strat or Jaguar, but you can't buy a new 2600 or MS-20 or OB-X.
yes you can, they're called softsynths.

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Re: A guitarists perspective on old vs new synths :)

Post by meatballfulton » Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:07 pm

I dunno, vintage vs. new arguments exist in the guitar world, the drum world, the sax world, you name it.

People complain about reissue guitars and amps the same way people complain about new Moogs vs. vintage Moogs.

Guitarists still debate about tubes vs. transistors!
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Re: A guitarists perspective on old vs new synths :)

Post by space6oy » Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:10 pm

meatballfulton wrote:Guitarists still debate about tubes vs. transistors!
only the dumb ones. ;)

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Re: A guitarists perspective on old vs new synths :)

Post by theVOID » Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:10 pm

Well I am both a guitarist and synthplayer/songwriter etc.. Although I mainly write on guitars, I started out with synths, about 20+ years ago :).

We guitarist are extremly anal about tubeamps and effectspedals, and guitars.
But the flamethreads etc, I havent seent them in any guitarforum.

yeah, Line6 suck hehe ;)
No really, its about feeling, a tubeamp in a room gives the nicest PLAYING experience, but that doesnt mean it is always superior to Amplitube etc when recorded.
Me myself use amplitube a lot, use miced tubeamp for certain Big Muff fuzz rythms and clean sounds with many external special pedals, as these have no equivalents or emulation in software.

I think you hit it on the head regarding markering, of course it pisses people of when Arturia etc say that their plugin sounds like a minimoog in all respects. We who have A/B teste both know that that simply isnt true.

But I am still taken aback by the ferocious analog vs VA, old vs new battles going on, especially on AH, but I have also found some here. Seems like some people dont have a life or dont care about music.
Saddens me.
Last edited by theVOID on Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: A guitarists perspective on old vs new synths :)

Post by theVOID » Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:14 pm

space6oy wrote:
meatballfulton wrote:Guitarists still debate about tubes vs. transistors!
only the dumb ones. ;)
Thats not a debate actually.
The difference between a hot tube amp and a transistor one is evident to any player who have tried it.
The differenc is greater than that of VA vs analog etc. Trust me..;)

I very much doubt that any professional recordings have ever been made with transistor amps doing distorsion, its for people learning to play or for cheap rehearsal.

Many recordings ARE however made with Amplitube, Guitar Rig, POD etc, because RECORDED they often sound as good as a real tube amp MIKED, not in the room, but that doesnt matter in this case.
My EP have songs using both teqhnicues, I LOVE amplitube :)

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Re: A guitarists perspective on old vs new synths :)

Post by nSCOURGE » Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:23 pm

nvbrkr wrote:
theVOID wrote: Why is there a debate at all :)?!
There really isn't much of a debate. Most agree that the old synths sound better.
True, although this sentiment is shared by many who have never actually used a VCO based synth in their lives(which makes their assessment even more trivial).

But, I would argue that digital synths cover alot more bases than analog(given the practical limitations of analog).

And, in my subjective experience, digital comes closer to emulating the best of analog, than the reverse(which is why I remain biased towards digital).

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Re: A guitarists perspective on old vs new synths :)

Post by Tchammosaur » Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:35 pm

space6oy wrote:
meatballfulton wrote:Guitarists still debate about tubes vs. transistors!
only the dumb ones. ;)
The smart ones' answer being ...

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Re: A guitarists perspective on old vs new synths :)

Post by de raaf » Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:55 pm

it is also pretty known that certain guitar player prefer a good transistor because its the sound they are after/ like
it isn't always that black/white folks

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Re: A guitarists perspective on old vs new synths :)

Post by JJQ » Thu Jun 17, 2010 11:24 pm

But many people forget that this is vintagesynth.com.

Not keaybord bla bla. Or "Modern musicmaker", etc.

I guess the guitarr people have their "vintageguitarforum" and their modern guitarpalyer stuff.

If I were intrested in software, radiases and motifses Id go somwere else.

If people want new vs. old discussions it OK, but Im here for the Arp 2600 etc.
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