909, 808, 303 - Worth it?

[suitandtieguy]

the amazing stuff BT does these days, that's what I meant by how production has improved, I mean could you imagine "This Binary Universe" being programmed on an 808 - I for one sure can't

some people would say "why would you want to?"

just because productions have become more complicated does not mean that they are more sophisticated.

for me the height of synth pop production is X by the Beloved. it is smooth, balanced, atmospheric, danceable, and poppy at the same time. same goes for Everything But The Girl's Tempermental album, or Nightlife by the Pet Shop Boys. these records are masterpieces and i have heard nothing since then compel me to listen to it as these records did or make me desire those sounds. Chromeo do a good job of coming close though, but those guys (literally) produce their tracks like it was 1993 (and pick sounds like it was 1983), so i'm not sure where to put them here other than to preface my next statement ...

what you're saying is akin to someone listening to Gentle Giant in 1978 say that it is "improved" upon Genesis' The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway or King Crimson's Red. yes, it's more complicated, but is it improved? people who really like Gentle Giant would indeed say so, but for me not so much.

some people might find my favourite records too glossy even ... one of my friends feels the height of dance music production was "Can You Feel It?" and "Acid Trax" ... and for him, they are. the part that blows me away is he's only 22 years old.

just because people now have the ability to cram more c**p in does not mean production has improved.

oh i should mention i don't really like Lady Gaga's production (her songs are very catchy though) but the lady probably knows her way around the studio more than any other hugely popular female diva vocalist of the past 30 years, and she can actually ... you know ... play piano too.

[Automatic Gainsay]

I have to go with Hybrid88 to some degree.
It's just weird for me that somehow in the last ten years or so, the 909 has been elevated from "a poor man's 808" to "one of the most important drum machines an electronic musician can have." The 909 has become a "classic" in a very short time, long after it was simply another option for someone seeking a drum machine. A musical instrument or production tool shouldn't be considered a "classic and eternal sound" simply because it existed in recordings that were popular, are popular, or have become popular. Being a "classic" usually requires the instrument to be an amazingly versatile tool which appeals to a lot of musicians spanning a variety of genres.
Somehow, many of us who lived in the United States made electronic dance music for years without these instruments. In the late 80s, we were excited about drum samples and better drum machines than they. There were and are LOADS of interesting drum machines with interesting sounds which were used by famous musicians to make electronic dance music.
Someday, I hope someone studies the effect the internet has had on our perception of history.

[kuroichi]

Someday, I hope someone studies the effect the internet has had on our perception of history.

Perfect. As far I'm concerned this thread is now over....

[colmon]

lol at using bt as an example of excellent modern production

[FX23]

i got my first tb303 in 1992, it cost 300 pounds and that seemed like a h**l of lot of money at the time. i loved it i just played it everynight i couldnt afford a sync box after buying it so i just played it on its own for years, sometimes with a old box delay pedal - fabulous!

i sold it in 1995, big mistake... so i searched classified ads (before ebay folks!) for a year solid and i found another tb303, a man who used it for backing for his guitar brought to round to my house to demo and sold it to me for 300 pounds! he had also brought an mc202 for me to look at and wanted 150 pounds for it but i had already broke the bank on getting the 303 and had to leave it!

anyway i still have that 303 today and use it on almost everything i do, i have blue and yellow leds in it and it has also been midi retrofitted i cant get enough of it, i also have several clones.. freebass 383 and acidlab bassline 2 which ive yet to use on anytrack!

no way would i pay a grand for one though!

[Hybrid88]

lol at using bt as an example of excellent modern production

Heard the album I referenced? Yeah thought not... prick

[suitandtieguy]

It's just weird for me that somehow in the last ten years or so, the 909 has been elevated from "a poor man's 808" to "one of the most important drum machines an electronic musician can have." The 909 has become a "classic" in a very short time

the TR-909 has held the same price for like 10+ years, and people praised it when i was in high school in the early 90s and they praise it now. i don't see how the situation has changed.

Heard the album I referenced? Yeah thought not... prick

maybe he _did_ hear it ...

[Hybrid88]

Heard the album I referenced? Yeah thought not... prick

maybe he _did_ hear it ...

I'm pretty sure he hasn't heard it because if you can listen to that album and not be impressed with at least the production and skills of the guy who did it, you'd have to seriously question the individual that made a post like that guy...

[JayEm]

why?

[braincandy]

lol at using bt as an example of excellent modern production

Heard the album I referenced? Yeah thought not... prick

Leave name-calling out of it, please.

[Hybrid88]

lol at using bt as an example of excellent modern production

Heard the album I referenced? Yeah thought not... prick

Leave name-calling out of it, please.

Sorry - but really, sometimes the ignorance of some posts round here can be pretty overwhelming.

[edfunction]

lol at using bt as an example of excellent modern production

Heard the album I referenced? Yeah thought not... prick

i think this is a perfect example of why a lot of producers want to go back to more basic instruments. it's definitely good production. to my ears it's far too slick and polished, i would say over-produced. that's just my opinion of course.

i'm a big fan fan of people using modern production techniques but it's not the only valid path, the same can be said for old-school production.

[Hybrid88]

lol at using bt as an example of excellent modern production

Heard the album I referenced? Yeah thought not... prick

i'm a big fan fan of people using modern production techniques but it's not the only valid path, the same can be said for old-school production.

Exactly! Finally some sense, you've hit the nail on the head here, that neither modern or old school production methods are exsclusive, I often get the impression (and this is more evident when talking of 808, 909, 303's) that people think that only old school is good and everything digital or new is bad. Personally I like to use the best of both worlds.

I can see why you would think that TBU is overproduced, and that is a valid opinion. I'd actually rather listen to that than an album full of 808, 909 - but thats just me

[Stab Frenzy]

I've heard that BT album and I'd use it as an example of what's wrong with modern production.

[ninja6485]

ok, well bt aside,

909's 808's whatever other drum machines had their day - still of some usefulness, but at the current prices...

this is the main thing. the price. i think the price is worth it, so i bought one, and i still think that because i not only love the sound of my 909, i love looking at it, and i love playing it, and i've tried emulations and to me it's not the same. they don't give me the 909 machine, which is what i want more than a pile of money. as the price rises, fewer and fewer people are going to think it's worth it, and this leaves the people who just want it more, because there is more involved then just the illusion of a certain sound. the wholistic experience of buying it, owning it, playing it, hearing the real thing and playing the real thing live is worth more to some then the illusion created by an emulation. is there any way of finding an objective criteria for when something is no longer worth it's market value for all people? no. again, as the price goes up, fewer and fewer people will thing that it is worth it. now as far as the 909 itself is concerned as a useful tool: this is the "vintage synth explorer" forum. using old gear in new ways is what this forum is about!