Roland GAIA Editor--end of free software?

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griffin avid
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Re: Roland GAIA Editor--end of free software?

Post by griffin avid » Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:27 pm

Like i wrote i'll soon get to that, at the moment i'm fighting the CASIO CZ1000 MIDI battle, and believe me it's a big one.

Well good luck with that and I hope you get to the A6 editor. I know a lot of users would kill for a workable soft editor.
For inspiration, I would look at the Moog/DSI editors from SoundTower and look at the genetics feature. That is a very cool system for generating soundbanks and mixing/morphing patches.
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Re: Roland GAIA Editor--end of free software?

Post by balma » Tue Sep 14, 2010 11:05 pm

griffin avid wrote:But, I don''t think anyone, including you, would choose to not buy a synth they wanted because the soft editor is $99.
Fisrt time I do no agree with you Griffin. I agree with S.F.

For me is quite unfair, to pay $99 for a software, if you are already paying for the synth..

Business concept is quite different per country. On United States, you pay a tip each time you go to a restaurant.
Is up to you, but maybe you'll find a d**k's hair in your food if you go to a restaurant, do not leave a tip and then come back.

However, tips does not exist in my country. No restaurant does that. Also, here in CR, if you buy clothes, you ask for discount if paying in cash. They always give you a 5% discount when paying at the cashier. I suppose they already counted with that at the moment to put the price for the T-shirt. But that does not matters. The thing is, a LOT of people won't come back to your clothes store, if you do not make discount at the time of paying in cash.

Sense of justice when doing business, has particular variations on several cultures

I had a Korg KArma, and there's a software that comes with it. I was very happy to insert the CD on the computer when I bought it to an italian guy, but for my surprise, the karma software asked me for a serial number.

In order to have it, I had to send a mail to Stephen Ray, inventor of karma's arpeggiator.

Then, the guy tracked my Karma to Napoli, Italy, with some "Enzo Brunchescoli" guy, who had to say on a signed letter: "yeah I sold that to Enrico Panocholi who went to live to costa rica, and sold the Karma to Mauricio Balma..."

After that, I had to pay $30 to Stephen Ray. to get a serial number to install it only in my computer.


I said (at least in my mind) f**k YOU Mr Ray.

And sold that f**k Karma.

Such a lack of loyalty and greedy from a label, is not seen with good eyes for a lot of customers....
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Re: Roland GAIA Editor--end of free software?

Post by griffin avid » Wed Sep 15, 2010 1:53 am

For me is quite unfair, to pay $99 for a software, if you are already paying for the synth..

I don't disagree with this thought and I think it's up to every individual to decide if anything is worth its price.
Me, I've bought lots of stuff becuase I wanted it/needed it over my distaste for the items cost.

I think most hardware companies think...hardware first, software is an add on and so make it free. DSI doesn't care AT ALL about the software and so that's developed by a third party. Same with Moog. KORG does its own, but it's free and seeing what you get, it kinda makes sense. KARMA is 3rd party and those guys are super-concerned about piracy. And that obsession usually makes it suck for legit customers.

I think Roland look at this software as way more than the usual soft editor. I am sure there will be a free one available so peeps won't have to be on the fence for long.

As far as the restaurant analogy goes, my tip goes to the server, not the establishment. If I complain about a hair, and my server replaces my dish for free or offers some kind of discount, my tip is a reflection of how they handled the situation. Only smaller stores offer discounts for cash and some places do include the tip in the cost of the meal, which sometimes I like and sometimes I hate.
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Re: Roland GAIA Editor--end of free software?

Post by cartesia » Wed Sep 15, 2010 6:53 am

I wouldn't buy the software editor..

but I wouldnt buy the GAIA anyway :lol:

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Re: Roland GAIA Editor--end of free software?

Post by griffin avid » Wed Sep 15, 2010 7:51 am

Coupla questions, Mr Catesia...
1. Did you buy the Soundtower soft editor for the TETR4?
2. Would you use the GAIA soft editor is it was free?
3. Would you buy it if it cost ~$40 USD?
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Re: Roland GAIA Editor--end of free software?

Post by cartesia » Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:07 am

No I haven't bought the editor for the tetra.. I tried the free version out and honestly I see no need to upgrade - I dont use the editor much anyway, I prefer to use the actual synth + a midi controller if I'm getting really deep into designing a sound.

A point I'd like to make about the cost of the GAIA editor is this:

$99 gets you a h**l of a softsynth.. In fact just recently (limited time) you could buy reaktor for $95 I believe... that's a h**l of a lot of opportunity for the same cost as the GAIA editor.

compare the amount of time spent developing a softsynth - and the capabilities of an actual softsynth - to a program that basically just sends and receives midi/sysex information and displays it in a nice way... To me it just doesn't make sense to pay that much for an editor. Even at $40 there are some amazing softsynths/plugins which have had 100x the development time put into them than an editor plugin - and coming from companies with a much smaller customer base than roland.

(incidentally I also have the same complaint about the cost of hardware sequencers compared to hardware synths - if people knew about the difference in hardware and operating system between synths and sequencers would they pay the same amount for both?.... but let's not get into that now :) )

I think at $40 the produce would be much more saleable, despite the reasoning that it is too much to pay I think alot more people would pay $40 than $99 - in fact I'd say they would make more total profit if they sold it for $40.

I can understand many people like the ability of using the editor to save a preset with their DAW project and automate the synth and save that (these are the best points of soft editors IMO), but making them pay that much for it ($99) - people are just going to go and use sounddiver/etc plugin controllers for free instead I think.

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Re: Roland GAIA Editor--end of free software?

Post by atom » Wed Sep 15, 2010 11:15 am

i have a free Tetra editor mac/pc vst/au in my ctlrr project. though no librarian functionality yet, the editor is fully functional. From what people been telling me all those soundtower products are not very useful for them.

And i agree i would never pay for a software editor for a hardware synthesizer i bought, when a vendor creates a hardware synthesizer he should factor in the cost of making a software editor/librarian to the cost of making the hardware, just like writing firmware for it.
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Re: Roland GAIA Editor--end of free software?

Post by StepLogik » Wed Sep 15, 2010 12:01 pm

griffin avid wrote:but if you are going to sell a crippled instrument then charging for a piece of software that unlocks those features is pretty shitty imo.

Yeah, I'd agree if that was the case here, but it's not. The interface of the Gaia is quite simple. If you want the benefit of the soft editor then it is what it is. You don't have to buy it to get plenty of mileage out of the Gaia.
i think you are correct. from what i can tell, the editor does not provide any additional programming functionality that cannot be achieved from the front panel.

so it seems the $99 price is simply roland trying to squeeze some additional profit from the machine. nothing wrong with that - its just business. roland has typically bundled editors with their synths for free, i suppose this is a new MO for them.

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Re: Roland GAIA Editor--end of free software?

Post by Syn303 » Wed Sep 15, 2010 12:27 pm

According to a Roland press release, the editor for the SH-01 will be for Owners, Beginners, Music Educators and Pros alike.
The GAIA sound designer software is expected to be available in October with a MSRP of $99.
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Re: Roland GAIA Editor--end of free software?

Post by balma » Thu Sep 16, 2010 7:01 pm

Wich features does the Gaia's software has, that makes him so expensive?

Let's consider this is a complementary implementation for the Gaia if you wanna connect it to your PC for an extra $100 bill.
It should give you a big advantage over other standard softwares that could work for the Gaia. Such a good advantage, that it worths the $100 you paid for it.

Normally a good synth with hardware controllers, does not need too much extras on the software world. But obviously there are things that can be done faster like patch managment (saving/copying, etc), edition and organization


Also, there is the "precendent effect" over the people who buys synths and already got some good editor along with them for free, they will be less viable to pay for this, since the already got something similar for nothing on their other machines.

I don't ask too much in the realm of software for my Roland Vsynth. Everything is there on the synth. The free sotware for the Vsynth, the Vsynth Librarian, is very handy for the patch organization: it indicates wich samples are being used by x patch, something not visible on the Vsynth hardware. It speeds a lot your patch work on the Vsynth, and it's free.

The Fizmo comes with the Fizmo sounddiver. In this case. it goes further, displaying parameters that cannot be found on the synth, like the 3 envelopes or effect paramters. it's a patch editor.

The protean romplers, come with the E-Loader, wich has several functions on the sequencer mostly. Recently, there was a third party releasing a patch editor witch speeds a lot the creative process over patches.

All of them for $0
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Re: Roland GAIA Editor--end of free software?

Post by Mr Knesh » Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:17 pm

I saw this and immediately mistook it for the gaia


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Re: Roland GAIA Editor--end of free software?

Post by griffin avid » Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:31 pm


Wich features does the Gaia's software has, that makes him so expensive?


Two things you won't find on any FREE soft editor.
1. Recording your tweaks in real time.
2. Displaying you edits as you create your own patches.

*I only saw the video once and those two features stood out.

Most free editors look like c**p. If all I want them to do is be a librarian then who cares? I'm only looking at it for seconds at a time. BUT if I want to actually use it for patch design then it should look as slick as a regular VST and basically be a virtual representation of the hardware.

The ones that I've paid for recently can generate new soundbanks and patches and have the ability to MORPH, Mangle, mix and randomize/mutate the patches. The free ones tend not to have those abilities.

Honestly, if you think it's too much or not worth it, don't buy it.
Same with the new Moog
I do think there should be a free editor that's basically a librarian like we're all accustomed to and a paid for version (this one) that you buy to get the extra bells and whistles.
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Re: Roland GAIA Editor--end of free software?

Post by mute » Fri Sep 24, 2010 6:57 pm

griffin avid wrote:
Wich features does the Gaia's software has, that makes him so expensive?


Two things you won't find on any FREE soft editor.
1. Recording your tweaks in real time.
2. Displaying you edits as you create your own patches.
I'm not getting this... 1. any vst editor i've used records into the host in real time.. just press record. i mean, its just midi. 2. i can't think of an editor that doesnt show hardware->software controller movements (at least not one made in the last ~10 years)?

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