Why has no one made a midi controllable analog drum unit?

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sequentialsoftshock
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Re: Why has no one made a midi controllable analog drum unit

Post by sequentialsoftshock » Fri Sep 24, 2010 10:21 pm

mute wrote:if someone made something crazy cheap (100-150$ range), like a mattle synsonics drumpad, but added midi and a bit more editing control... I'd buy it in a second.
Hmm. Well, remove MIDI and Control, and you MIGHT find it at $149.99. After a $50 rebate, of course. Sad, but true.
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Re: Why has no one made a midi controllable analog drum unit

Post by cartesia » Sat Sep 25, 2010 4:22 am

there's a problem with these two:

- wide sound range
- 100% analog

Any possible product at the moment that fits your requirement even closely will basically just be a TR-ish type thing.. unless you had a midi controllable modular drum machine or something! :D

You're not going to get beyond these basic types of synthetic percussion (pitch modulation + noise ,etc) - the reason being that they can't afford to have multiple oscillators + noise generator + analog filters + multiple modulators + whatever else you want per voice - It would end up being one of the biggest analog synths on the market if it had say 8 parts.. 16 oscillators, 8 noise generators, resonant LP filter per voice, HP filter for at least some voices (really need a separate filter for the oscs and a separate one for the noise to do some sounds), say 16 envelopes.. then you need all the midi controllable parameter setting electronics... I think it would end up being $3000+ and taking up a large amount of rack space..


What I do is run a combination of analog drum machine (for kick, snare, toms - I like the classic type sounds for these things) + use a sampler and any synth (analog and digital) for weird sounds.. . don't forget digital makes heaps of sounds that analog can't do as well, digital isn't just a cheap imitation of analog.

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Re: Why has no one made a midi controllable analog drum unit

Post by sequentialsoftshock » Sat Sep 25, 2010 4:24 am

cartesia wrote:Don't forget digital makes heaps of sounds that analog can't do as well, digital isn't just a cheap imitation of analog.
I don't think anyone insinuated that here. ;)
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Re: Why has no one made a midi controllable analog drum unit

Post by Sir Ruff » Sat Sep 25, 2010 5:59 am

cartesia wrote:there's a problem with these two:

- wide sound range
- 100% analog

Any possible product at the moment that fits your requirement even closely will basically just be a TR-ish type thing.. unless you had a midi controllable modular drum machine or something! :D

You're not going to get beyond these basic types of synthetic percussion (pitch modulation + noise ,etc) - the reason being that they can't afford to have multiple oscillators + noise generator + analog filters + multiple modulators + whatever else you want per voice - It would end up being one of the biggest analog synths on the market if it had say 8 parts.. 16 oscillators, 8 noise generators, resonant LP filter per voice, HP filter for at least some voices (really need a separate filter for the oscs and a separate one for the noise to do some sounds), say 16 envelopes.. then you need all the midi controllable parameter setting electronics... I think it would end up being $3000+ and taking up a large amount of rack space..
This isn't true at all: the vermona DRM1 has 8 individual drum sounds, all separately controllable and each having a wide range of sound parameters. This costs $800 or so new? So, what would it cost to simply add CPU control of the parameters? Losing all those knobs would also save on costs and space.
The MFB-503 does 5 seperate CPU-controlled analog sounds in a box the size of a video cassette for a few hundred dollars; the Airbase did it all in a 1U rack. What I'm talking about is clearly not new or $$$ technology.
Do you even post on vse bro?

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Re: Why has no one made a midi controllable analog drum unit

Post by ninja6485 » Sat Sep 25, 2010 6:47 am

i wonder if there's a practical way to build one using doepfer or dotcom modules?
This looks like a psychotropic reaction. No wonder it's so popular...

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Re: Why has no one made a midi controllable analog drum unit

Post by V301H » Sat Sep 25, 2010 9:14 am

The Simmons SDS-9 MIDI controllable drum brain from 1985 has analog bass and toms with analog filtering. Filter parameters include filter pitch and filter sweep as well as tone pitch, pitch bend amount, and decay length settings.
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Re: Why has no one made a midi controllable analog drum unit

Post by sequentialsoftshock » Sat Sep 25, 2010 9:22 am

V301H wrote:The Simmons SDS-9 MIDI controllable drum brain from 1985 has analog bass and toms with analog filtering. Filter parameters include filter pitch and filter sweep as well as tone pitch, pitch bend amount, and decay length settings.
I'm thinking that the O/P was most likely referring to something modern, but did already mention Simmons kit as something that he would like to see improved upon because, while it offers those things you mentioned, there are no memories and other features he would like.
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Re: Why has no one made a midi controllable analog drum unit

Post by kuroichi » Sat Sep 25, 2010 12:39 pm

I think a lot of the smaller companies like vermona may not have the software know how to include full MIDI control, a lot of the boutique companies never seem to go into the digital domain, as I imagine some of them dont have the knowledge to program, test and debug etc...

Jomox have done it somewhat with the airbase, but while the digital voices have VCAs, theyve yet to make an all analog voiced machine. Plus, Jomox devices are far from bug free.

The thing is though, how many parameters could you want access to at once, before the unit starts to require synthesizer level architecture...

It could be interesting for syncopation and fills etc, plus patch memory would help with saving kits of course.

Are you more interested in the idea of integrating something with your computer properly for accessing parameters or sound design and the ability to save creations?

I don't what the advantage of it would be, over using a synthesizer, or just something like a vermona drm.
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Re: Why has no one made a midi controllable analog drum unit

Post by cartesia » Sat Sep 25, 2010 2:46 pm

Sir Ruff wrote:
cartesia wrote:there's a problem with these two:

- wide sound range
- 100% analog

Any possible product at the moment that fits your requirement even closely will basically just be a TR-ish type thing.. unless you had a midi controllable modular drum machine or something! :D

You're not going to get beyond these basic types of synthetic percussion (pitch modulation + noise ,etc) - the reason being that they can't afford to have multiple oscillators + noise generator + analog filters + multiple modulators + whatever else you want per voice - It would end up being one of the biggest analog synths on the market if it had say 8 parts.. 16 oscillators, 8 noise generators, resonant LP filter per voice, HP filter for at least some voices (really need a separate filter for the oscs and a separate one for the noise to do some sounds), say 16 envelopes.. then you need all the midi controllable parameter setting electronics... I think it would end up being $3000+ and taking up a large amount of rack space..
This isn't true at all: the vermona DRM1 has 8 individual drum sounds, all separately controllable and each having a wide range of sound parameters. This costs $800 or so new? So, what would it cost to simply add CPU control of the parameters? Losing all those knobs would also save on costs and space.
The MFB-503 does 5 seperate CPU-controlled analog sounds in a box the size of a video cassette for a few hundred dollars; the Airbase did it all in a 1U rack. What I'm talking about is clearly not new or $$$ technology.

By wide pallette, I meant going beyond the usual pitch mod + noise + decay type setup.. all the DRM-1 parts have wide settings possible for the parameters, but the parameters themselves are very standard/common type synthetic percussion.. besides the FM control on the D1/D2/D3 there really isn't any out of the ordinary sound programming option on the DRM-1 (and unfortunately those parts dont have any noise source because of the limit of 7 knobs per voice)

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Re: Why has no one made a midi controllable analog drum unit

Post by jaypodesta » Sat Sep 25, 2010 5:25 pm

sequentialsoftshock wrote:
V301H wrote:The Simmons SDS-9 MIDI controllable drum brain from 1985 has analog bass and toms with analog filtering. Filter parameters include filter pitch and filter sweep as well as tone pitch, pitch bend amount, and decay length settings.
I'm thinking that the O/P was most likely referring to something modern, but did already mention Simmons kit as something that he would like to see improved upon because, while it offers those things you mentioned, there are no memories and other features he would like.
Where do you get your info from - thin air? I'm pretty sure it has 20 memory slots where you can store your "own" sounds.
Last edited by jaypodesta on Sat Sep 25, 2010 5:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Why has no one made a midi controllable analog drum unit

Post by Zack McConnell » Sat Sep 25, 2010 5:42 pm

Better yet, why hasn't anyone made a FM synthesis drum box? I have a cheapy little toy Yamaha keyboard (PSS-460) and I'd be damned if those drums didn't sound like a smaller cousin to the 808!

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Re: Why has no one made a midi controllable analog drum unit

Post by space6oy » Sun Sep 26, 2010 12:35 am

ruff you've gotta be the first synth junkie to want fewer knobs. ;)

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Re: Why has no one made a midi controllable analog drum unit

Post by Sir Ruff » Mon Sep 27, 2010 12:04 am

space6oy wrote:ruff you've gotta be the first synth junkie to want fewer knobs. ;)
Indeed... I was just trying to be cost-conscious. Obviously something along the lines of the DRM1 with knobs, memories and midi control would be the holy grail :ugeek: :lol:
Do you even post on vse bro?

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Re: Why has no one made a midi controllable analog drum unit

Post by sequentialsoftshock » Mon Sep 27, 2010 4:58 am

Zack McConnell wrote:Better yet, why hasn't anyone made a FM synthesis drum box? I have a cheapy little toy Yamaha keyboard (PSS-460) and I'd be damned if those drums didn't sound like a smaller cousin to the 808!
They have. The Machinedrum from Elektron has an FM engine.
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Re: Why has no one made a midi controllable analog drum unit

Post by Stab Frenzy » Mon Sep 27, 2010 6:57 am

Sir Ruff wrote:
cartesia wrote:there's a problem with these two:

- wide sound range
- 100% analog

Any possible product at the moment that fits your requirement even closely will basically just be a TR-ish type thing.. unless you had a midi controllable modular drum machine or something! :D

You're not going to get beyond these basic types of synthetic percussion (pitch modulation + noise ,etc) - the reason being that they can't afford to have multiple oscillators + noise generator + analog filters + multiple modulators + whatever else you want per voice - It would end up being one of the biggest analog synths on the market if it had say 8 parts.. 16 oscillators, 8 noise generators, resonant LP filter per voice, HP filter for at least some voices (really need a separate filter for the oscs and a separate one for the noise to do some sounds), say 16 envelopes.. then you need all the midi controllable parameter setting electronics... I think it would end up being $3000+ and taking up a large amount of rack space..
This isn't true at all: the vermona DRM1 has 8 individual drum sounds, all separately controllable and each having a wide range of sound parameters. This costs $800 or so new? So, what would it cost to simply add CPU control of the parameters? Losing all those knobs would also save on costs and space.
The MFB-503 does 5 seperate CPU-controlled analog sounds in a box the size of a video cassette for a few hundred dollars; the Airbase did it all in a 1U rack. What I'm talking about is clearly not new or $$$ technology.
The issue is that there aren't many people who want this. Generally people want lots of controls and a sequencer with their analogue drum machines. The one thing that did do everything that you want sold so poorly that JoMoX stopped making them.

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