Blue Monday Prophet 5 question

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Blue Monday Prophet 5 question

Post by mharris80 » Sat Oct 23, 2010 7:39 pm

Hi all. Long time, no post. I was wondering if anyone had any pointers on getting that one Pro5 sound from Blue Monday. You know, the really cheesey so-80s-it-hurts thing. I assume it has something to do with the LFO, but I can't quite seem to get it to come out right. I'm using the Synth01 VST plugin for analog type sounds, if that helps any. It's modeled after a NL2, so I would think it should be up to the task. Any help would be appreciated.



Sorry, guess I should have clarified a bit better. It's the part that first appears at about 2:20, behind the vocal. It shows up again at 3:09 by itself. I've watched footage of them playing it live, and every time they used the P05 for that part. If worst comes to worst, I suppose I could always try to sample it, though I'm still in the learning process as far as that particular art goes.
Last edited by mharris80 on Sat Oct 23, 2010 8:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Blue Monday Prophet 5 question

Post by RD9 » Sat Oct 23, 2010 7:57 pm

If you're talking about the bass line, I think that's just the filter envelope and it has nothing to do with a Prophet 5 per se. Practically any synth can do that. The high pitched melody starting at about 15 seconds in however seems to use an LFO to modulate the filter which is far more interesting.

And for the record, it's not cheesy. It's called disco. :)

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Re: Blue Monday Prophet 5 question

Post by shaft9000 » Sat Oct 23, 2010 8:01 pm

the bassline is played on a Moog source iirc.
I wonder if they used a polysynth at all on that record, as NO/JD often used the Arp Omni stringmachine for polyphonic work early on.

EDIT - ah, Ok. i see what sound it is. the chords that squiggle about.

I don't have a P5, but I suspect that whatever drummachine or sequencer they used is sending clock to the gate input on the P5. This triggers the VCA or LFO (square) in a tempo-sync of volume or filter frequency going rapidly up and down. try both to hear the subtle differences available.
notice the 'gating' effect is independent of the actual playing of the chords; i.e. it's constantly going up+down the keyboard just gates the VCA to open when you want to hear the notes.
The patch sounds FM'ed or PWM'ed slightly as well to get that reedy timbre. It's likely a P5 preset combined w/ external gating.

there's also a delay on itthat exacerbates the whole effect
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Re: Blue Monday Prophet 5 question

Post by snod_donkey » Sat Oct 23, 2010 8:31 pm

This track was ground breaking when released!! It was far from cheese

Im sure they were using a Prophet 5 and im sure i remember an Emulater too
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Re: Blue Monday Prophet 5 question

Post by mharris80 » Sat Oct 23, 2010 8:40 pm

snod_donkey wrote:This track was ground breaking when released!! It was far from cheese and also far from Disco!!

Im sure they were using a Prophet 5 and im sure i remember an Emulater too
Yeah, definitely an Emulator for the choir sounds. I can fake that with the M1. Basically, this is more an experiment than anything. One of those "can I pull this s**t off?" type things. Basically, I want to try and just do as much of it as I can using sounds I come up with, sorta my own interpretation. I've got rough ideas in my head about how I want to arrange it, and what sounds I'll be using. I've already got a few programmed. That one sound though. That one's just too unique not to try and recreate as closely as possible. And I agree that the song itself isn't cheese. Just that one sound that I'm trying to get sounds really 80s to me for some reason.

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Re: Blue Monday Prophet 5 question

Post by Micke » Sat Oct 23, 2010 8:56 pm

Don't forget the ARP Quadra! It does the arpeggiating figures as well as the strings.
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Re: Blue Monday Prophet 5 question

Post by Automatic Gainsay » Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:12 pm

This song truly invented electronic dance music. There is nothing cheesy about it!
Previous to this song, dance clubs essentially played disco songs, and they were only "electronic" because synths were in them. This song basically ruled the clubs I attended at the point at which electronic dance music really came into being in the U.S.. This was the dawn of the 12-inch single/remix which was the actual origin of electronic dance music... far moreso (in the U.S., at least) than Techno, some years later.
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Re: Blue Monday Prophet 5 question

Post by colmon » Sun Oct 24, 2010 1:15 am

"blue monday", great song though it is, is an italo disco rip off, which kinda puts paid to your spurious new order invented electronic dance music theory

as for there being no electronic dance music played in clubs prior to this song, i think giorgio moroder, patrick cowley, telex, ymo, klein & mbo and countless italo disco, electro and freestyle producers would beg to differ

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Re: Blue Monday Prophet 5 question

Post by Automatic Gainsay » Sun Oct 24, 2010 2:00 am

colmon wrote:"blue monday", great song though it is, is an italo disco rip off, which kinda puts paid to your spurious new order invented electronic dance music theory

as for there being no electronic dance music played in clubs prior to this song, i think giorgio moroder, patrick cowley, telex, ymo, klein & mbo and countless italo disco, electro and freestyle producers would beg to differ
You'll note that I indicated in the United States.
I'll tell you right now that none of us had heard terms like "italo," "electro," or even "freestyle," in the years I'm talking about.
Obviously, "electronic dance music" came about from a variety of sources and influence, and I am certainly not insisting that Blue Monday was responsible for the entirety of electronic dance music. I'm merely indicating that it was vastly influential in the United States, and was different from what had previously been played in clubs. I know if you're from Europe, or someone who is younger and learned what you know from the internet, you have a different concept of the history of electronic dance music, and that's cool... but things happened differently in America... especially in regions outside of New York and L.A..
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Re: Blue Monday Prophet 5 question

Post by RD9 » Sun Oct 24, 2010 2:03 am

Blue Monday is a ripoff of italo is like saying Nirvana is a ripoff of classic rock and roll.
Or Elvis is a ripoff of African American music.
I don't think ripoff is the right word.

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Re: Blue Monday Prophet 5 question

Post by mharris80 » Sun Oct 24, 2010 2:08 am

Automatic Gainsay wrote:but things happened differently in America... especially in regions outside of New York and L.A..
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Re: Blue Monday Prophet 5 question

Post by tekkentool » Sun Oct 24, 2010 2:50 am

Moroder predates it as the invention of EDM if you asked me. That dominated the clubs in the 70's as well.

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Re: Blue Monday Prophet 5 question

Post by Roby31 » Sun Oct 24, 2010 3:52 am

I always thought of it as a pretty narrow pulse wave arpeggio, if that's the sound you're referring to.
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Re: Blue Monday Prophet 5 question

Post by mharris80 » Sun Oct 24, 2010 5:59 am

Roby31 wrote:I always thought of it as a pretty narrow pulse wave arpeggio, if that's the sound you're referring to.
Cool, I'll have to try that. Thanks! I guess I thought it was the LFO because of how quickly it was being modulated. Definitely some filter sweepage going on there, as well.

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Re: Blue Monday Prophet 5 question

Post by EmptySet » Sun Oct 24, 2010 8:19 am

RD9 wrote:Blue Monday is a ripoff of italo is like saying Nirvana is a ripoff of classic rock and roll.
Or Elvis is a ripoff of African American music.
I don't think ripoff is the right word.
Uh oh, fighting words. :) Well, Elvis IS a ripoff. And I'd argue that Nirvana is too. (except that I'd say classic rock + punk). But New Order is no ripoff. Well, except for the Kraftwerk samples they famously ripped off… and the beats… and, well, dammit, I guess they're a ripoff too. I think ripping off has been given a bad name. And some of us sampler fans can attest to that.

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