Flipping gear

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Solderman
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Re: Flipping gear

Post by Solderman » Tue Oct 26, 2010 2:25 pm

tallowwaters wrote:I believe there a few governments are founded on this belief, rife with various pestilence and plague, maybe you would like it better there, great arbiter of inanimate objects...
As opposed to this one, founded by white male land/slave-owners claiming everyone deserves freedom and representation, when all they really wanted was free enterprise and to break free of the church of England for a more conservative and oppressive practice of religion. Same old s**t, different guise.
code green wrote:your defense of "musicians" comes across as nothing so much as the rant of a frustrated, envious collector....to profit off a synth is an unspeakable crime but to rob someone of his teeth or life is excusable?
I never said I would actually do it. I'm far too chicken-s**t to go any farther than spit venom at passers-by. No, I'm not changing my opinion about this. Yeah the rising prices are what's really getting my goat here, but as I said, this is partly due to people flipping gear, for whatever reason they choose to do so. I hate it. I really do. So what? It's just one person's worthless opinion, and I'll shut it before I get myself in trouble.
I am no longer in pursuit of vintage synths. The generally absurd inflation from demand versus practical use and maintenance costs is no longer viable. The internet has suffocated and vanquished yet another wonderful hobby. Too bad.
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Re: Flipping gear

Post by SickMonkey » Tue Oct 26, 2010 4:21 pm

memory cords wrote: I think what Solderman means is that you should sell things for around the same price that you paid for them. If that is what he means then I agree with him.

I've met people who have sold things for five times the price that they bought them. Personally I think that is immoral.
Immoral? Oh, come on. We're talking about a non-essential good here, not our daily bread. Not only is it not necessary for survival, but it's not even necessary for music making. It's arguably not even beneficial for music-making - vintage gear is fun, but for getting any actual music produced software is clearly much more productive. If anything, talented musicians should be kept away from the colossal time sink that is vintage synthesizers.

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Re: Flipping gear

Post by tallowwaters » Tue Oct 26, 2010 7:13 pm

Solderman wrote:I'm far too chicken-s**t
I think that accurately sums up most of these self entitled opinions about flipping gear.
Brains can be used like a "stress ball," but only once.

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Re: Flipping gear

Post by Solderman » Tue Oct 26, 2010 8:11 pm

Opinions, yep. They're just like...well, you know.

I haven't been completely honest. I sold the JP8 a month ago for the same price originally paid for in 2007. With the funds, I bought an SEM, some Moogerfoogers, an optical compressor, a 48 pt patchbay, an assload of cables, Komplete 6, a quad-core DAW PC and an MKS-50.

Technically not flipping, because the selling and buying price were the same. But it's the same fickle principle.

But talk is cheap; much cheaper than gear, it seems. Sorry if I offended everyone with my bitter, morose (and basically pointless) grumblings.
I am no longer in pursuit of vintage synths. The generally absurd inflation from demand versus practical use and maintenance costs is no longer viable. The internet has suffocated and vanquished yet another wonderful hobby. Too bad.
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Re: Flipping gear

Post by Cumulus » Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:14 pm

Solderman wrote:

Big fat NO to the first question. I feel that with the increased availability of rare items that would otherwise stay in a studio, flipping gear is partly responsible for continued demand, and if everyone who does this sells for profit with that kind of demand, prices can only increase. This is even true for the person who sold said item and later regretted doing so, and now wants possession of another one.
Interesting point but I do not think the demand is driven by the selling of gear - rather the selling of gear is driven by the demand.

The demand side of the equation is what determines whether something gets sold. If somebody found 3,000 Minimoogs in a wharehouse and put them up for sale this would not increase the demand for the Minimoog but it would would it cause the price to go down a bit.

People want the Minimoog because it's a good synth - not just because it's being sold.

The demand is what makes the prices go up. More people selling gear increases the supply and actually drives the prices down.

Having said all that, I agree that you should buy what you want and use what you have.

There wil always be something you can't have but you should not focus on that. Focus on the setup you have. If you do have to buy, be flexible and wait for a killer deal. That way, if you decide to sell it later you won't have to take a loss.

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Re: Flipping gear

Post by tallowwaters » Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:35 pm

Solderman wrote:Opinions, yep. They're just like...well, you know.

I haven't been completely honest. I sold the JP8 a month ago for the same price originally paid for in 2007. With the funds, I bought an SEM, some Moogerfoogers, an optical compressor, a 48 pt patchbay, an assload of cables, Komplete 6, a quad-core DAW PC and an MKS-50.

Technically not flipping, because the selling and buying price were the same. But it's the same fickle principle.

But talk is cheap; much cheaper than gear, it seems. Sorry if I offended everyone with my bitter, morose (and basically pointless) grumblings.
Well, if you were one of the typical trolls here, I wouldn't have minded. Truth is, you know what you are talking about and I tend to read your posts, so I was a bit put off by the bizarre (to me) stance against selling gear. Onwards and upwards.
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Re: Flipping gear

Post by devetron » Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:55 pm

Flip away, I say. If I see $2000 lying there, (in the form of an undervalued piece that just popped up) I MUST act on it. Be the one loading the f**k in your car while the others debate whether they should call or not.
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Re: Flipping gear

Post by ColorForm2113 » Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:01 pm

I don't flip gear to make money, more to try out new things. Synthesis is more of a hobby for me right now, I do occassionally put music together when I have the time, but for the most part I just like being able to hear what is possible with a synth and understand different methods of synthesis etc. I used to do A LOT of gear flipping with fx pedals and amps until I realized instead trying to make my guitar sound like a synth I would just buy a synth. Im also a bargin hunter when it comes to gear (for the most part) so if and when I decide to sell down the line I usually am able to get more for it so I can aquire new and better things. Similar to what AG was saying, I just haven't had his level of success with let lol
My modular so far: Q104, Q106, Q107, Q108, Q109 x2 , Q116, Q118, Q127 w/Q140, Q130, STG Wave Folder, playing with Moog Voyager, VX-351, CP-251, MF-104M (x2 STEREO!)

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Re: Flipping gear

Post by Automatic Gainsay » Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:10 pm

ColorForm2113 wrote:Similar to what AG was saying, I just haven't had his level of success with let lol
I had a lot of good luck due to timing, mostly! But the whole venture didn't pay for itself, alas!
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Re: Flipping gear

Post by ColorForm2113 » Wed Oct 27, 2010 1:23 am

Automatic Gainsay wrote:
ColorForm2113 wrote:Similar to what AG was saying, I just haven't had his level of success with let lol
I had a lot of good luck due to timing, mostly! But the whole venture didn't pay for itself, alas!
oh yeah obviously some bit of money has to be put in at some point. Timing had a huge part to play i bet. i wish i could go back in time to the "digital uprising" where people were practically throughing away all the old analog synths
My modular so far: Q104, Q106, Q107, Q108, Q109 x2 , Q116, Q118, Q127 w/Q140, Q130, STG Wave Folder, playing with Moog Voyager, VX-351, CP-251, MF-104M (x2 STEREO!)

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Re: Flipping gear

Post by code green » Wed Oct 27, 2010 2:06 am

ugh, i shouldn't be let near the interwebs before my morning coffee. sorry for the spaz, solderman. the post got me all crotchety.

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Re: Flipping gear

Post by ninja6485 » Wed Oct 27, 2010 2:38 am

SickMonkey wrote:Immoral? Oh, come on. We're talking about a non-essential good here, not our daily bread.
greed as the basis for intent wile taking advantage of someone who doesn't know any better than to pay an exhorbanant price for said piece of gear can be considered immoral. i'm not saying every case is this, i'm not saying it's universal to everyone's sense of morality, or that it's my view. but if you can't understand how someone would consider it immoral, hopefully now you can.
SickMonkey wrote:Not only is it not necessary for survival, but it's not even necessary for music making. It's arguably not even beneficial for music-making - vintage gear is fun, but for getting any actual music produced software is clearly much more productive. If anything, talented musicians should be kept away from the colossal time sink that is vintage synthesizers.
Image
i'm using all sorts of gear from software, to a totally integrated virtual synths, to midi controlled analog synths, to old synths devoid of midi or limited to cv/gate, to real instruments to inatimate objects. the easiest gear to use is the gear that i can just turn on, and lay down a track(or pick up and play). no computer bullshit. they also happen to sound alot better in a number of situations (not all), and inspire me to write better music than i have when i use software. ;)
This looks like a psychotropic reaction. No wonder it's so popular...

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Re: Flipping gear

Post by harness » Wed Oct 27, 2010 5:11 am

I think I have my perfect setup. Its taken me a few years, but one thing that has helped me was absolutely restricting my space(a rack for sound sources, a rack for fx/dynamics, and 2 tier keyboard stand). It kept me from getting out of hand. Also, composing with one piece of gear with the internal sounds for the longest time, then analyze after what elements I wanted to replace with a specific sound/quality. Research what gear makes and/or excels at that, then buying and see if it works. I only replaced/sold/upgraded a few pieces that didn't work for me or outgrew them. I do have gearlust, but having a plan beforehand and sticking to it help me greatly to focus on the music in my head.

Just like cars and people. For some, as long as it gets them from point A to B. Some are dealers. Some have that mint 1964 Ferrari 250 GTO with less than 100 miles covered in the garage. Theres nothing wrong with any of that. Its just what their goals are and what works for them. I'm just glad I have a musical ride thats both practical and inspiring to drive.
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Re: Flipping gear

Post by Cumulus » Wed Oct 27, 2010 3:44 pm

Flipping gear is neither moral nor immoral.

Since there is no established value for any given piece of kit, the price is what it is. The value is literally what someone is willing to pay for it.

Take the TR-808, for example. It was $1,000.00 new. Does that mean nobody shoudl ever sell one for more or less than $1,000.00? There was a time when you could pick one up for far less. Was it wrong to do so? When they were going for $100 they were literally worth $100. Now that they are going for over $1,000.00 they are worth that. Nobody is being immoral.

Now, supposed you were at the garage sale 10 minutes before Owl City supposedly bought his ARP for $25.00. Would you:
A. Instist on paying the current market value for it.
or
B. Pull $25.00 out of your wallet and load it in your car?

Would you be worng for doing either one?

I would have handed the nice lady $25.00 and asked her if they had any more "pianos" for sale. I would not feel bad for her since she got what she wanted out of the transaction.

Sorry if this sounds harsh but it's economics. We have all been screwed and we have all scored great deals. The trick is to try to do less of the former and more of the latter.

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Re: Flipping gear

Post by sequentialsoftshock » Wed Oct 27, 2010 6:59 pm

Yeah dude, what is this stuff about morals?! It's not like you're dicking anyone over if that's the asking price! I've bought stuff from people who have gotten it a lot cheaper and then sold it to me with no hard feelings, as I've done the same. I got my broken TOM for $80 and my perfect one for $24; the broken one left my possession for $100 and I of course kept the good one. The MicroKorg I had for a short while was acquired for $120, but I sold it for $250. And I'd still give Cumulus $550 for his 808 ;) ;) ;)
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