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sampling-groovebox-sequencer-workstation

Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 1:37 pm
by sepiakeys
Some questions concerning loop-based sampling and prase-sequencing:

1. Is the Yamaha RS7000 a fusion of the SU700 and the RM1x?

2. Are Akai MPC- or Roland MC-Boxes the better deal? Why?

3. Where lies the power of looper-pedals?

4. Is time-stretching and bpm-matching of sampled loops a standard in modern sampling-grooveboxes?

5. Which would be your "weapon of choice"?

Thanks!

Re: sampling-groovebox-sequencer-workstation

Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 3:32 pm
by balma
The MC 909 is a good machine for the live performance, plenty of controls and a very intuitive concept. . The others from the MC series, despite being fun to play on stage, have an outdated sound and a pretty basic rompler synthesis.

Re: sampling-groovebox-sequencer-workstation

Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 3:43 pm
by blavatsky
1. not sure about the SU700, but basically RS7000 is an RM1x with slightly better(bigger?) soundset and sampling built in. The sampling is the RS7000 is a little tricky to learn but I think has a great sound. Excellent sequencer.
2. Haven't owned either. From what i've ready, MC-boxes are (808, 909) are a good all in one synth/sampler/groovebox but some don't love the interface; MPC are more just samplers/drum machine (except newest one has some synth built in I think...)
3. Dunno. I like that for a guitar but for a synth i'd rather sequence.
4. I think its better on the 909/808 than the RS7000 - the RS can chop and pitch , never tried stretching.
You can pitch and therefore slowdown/speedup for sure.
5. RS7000, or MC-909 if i didn't have the RS.

RS pros: sequencer, good built in effects (3 insert, 1 master per channel) , good filters, nice sampler sound (can be distorted/crunchy/lofi/etc), good chopper, easy to learn basics. Great for driving external gear. built in keypad for basic stuff.

RS cons: sampling is tricky, limited memory, uses old smartmedia, only 2 velocity sensing pads, internal sounds are dated (but some are still very usable...), bulky, saving/loading is slow.

My 2 cents.

Re: sampling-groovebox-sequencer-workstation

Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 5:17 pm
by griffin avid
I see that you are researching old-school options, but you might want to take a look at the coming Machinedrum Octatrack.
http://www.elektron.se/
There's also a few few threads round these parts...
http://www.vintagesynth.com/forum/viewt ... =octatrack

Re: sampling-groovebox-sequencer-workstation

Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 7:21 pm
by Shreddie
I can't answer all of your questions but here goes...
sepiakeys wrote:2. Are Akai MPC- or Roland MC-Boxes the better deal? Why?
Define "better deal"... What do you need from it/them?
3. Where lies the power of looper-pedals?
Fast, on-the-fly, live looping.
4. Is time-stretching and bpm-matching of sampled loops a standard in modern sampling-grooveboxes?
Not in all of them.
5. Which would be your "weapon of choice"?
MPC 5000... I don't have one but could really see one in my setup.

Re: sampling-groovebox-sequencer-workstation

Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 2:34 pm
by Blue Monster 65
This doesn't really answer your questions, but I would suggest you download and read (or at least skim) the manuals for any of these instruments you have an interest in. When researching which "groovebox" (I don't care for that term), that's what I did.

Ultimately I decided on an MC-909, which I used for several years. I liked it quite a bit, though I never used the sampling option (just don't use that, for my own reasons). The sequencing options onboard suited my workflow and I found the synth engine workable (at the time). Others here will swear by the RS7000 - I had an RM1x for ages, too, which I liked, but decided the 909 would better suit me than the 7000.

We've discussed these (and others) here ad nauseum. The bottom line - as always - is you'll have to figure out which will best suit you, as each individual has his own strongly held opinions on "what's best."

I've yet to be a convert to MPCs - I just don't do much in the way of sampling. That said, I should probably pick one up someday to get a feel for them. The 5000 is interesting, as the onboard synthesis would be for me. I know a few people who have this model and, for the most part, they really like it.

Someone else mentioned looper pedals are best used for guitars, but I've seen a few people do interesting things using them with synths. I think it takes practice and planning for anyone to put these pedals to their proper use, but if you're willing to spend the time to do so, you could probably get some good results out of just one of those and any sound source.

Good luck with your search.

Re: sampling-groovebox-sequencer-workstation

Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 4:09 pm
by Zamise
I don't think the MPCs and Grooveboxes/Groovegear should be compared, but they always do.

Just ran over a lot of RS7000 junk on another thread so I don't feel like rehashing it all, but here is the thread:

http://www.vintagesynth.com/forum/viewt ... =3&t=54707

MC909 seems like the RS's closest rival to me, interesting tho that they are near a decade apart in design, and yet the RS still challenges it. Just think if Yamaha continued updating the line :cry:

The RT Spectralis is a monster to be considered as well, but consider it very carefully before you shell out the $$$. I did and I still prefer my RS over it, so I think that says a lot about the RS7000.

The Elktron MDs seem great too, but not used one yet to compare, and same with some of the EMU Command Stations.

Also, the RS7000 has some different AWM2 voice banks then the RM1X and perhaps a more sophesticated LFO and some other extra features, possibly more filters etc., but big dif is the output converter is a higher bit rate so it sounds crisper. Supposedly identical sample engine to the SU700.

Groovegear is a more accurate term I think, strictly speaking Rolands are the only Grooveboxes.

Good luck with whatever you go with... go with an RS7000 ;)

Re: sampling-groovebox-sequencer-workstation

Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 4:26 pm
by I12
And yet all of them have some ridiculously stupid interface/slow/missing /needs a convoluted work around os implementation that could relatively easily been fixed with an update or a mk2.

that never was!

Re: sampling-groovebox-sequencer-workstation

Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 4:35 pm
by Zamise
I12 wrote:And yet all of them have some ridiculously stupid interface/slow/missing /needs a convoluted work around os implementation that could relatively easily been fixed with an update or a mk2.

that never was!
Well get to it dude.

Re: sampling-groovebox-sequencer-workstation

Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 5:13 pm
by meatballfulton
I12 wrote:And yet all of them have some ridiculously stupid interface/slow/missing /needs a convoluted work around os implementation
Just job security for the designer, gotta leave behind something to fix :banghead:

Re: sampling-groovebox-sequencer-workstation

Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 5:36 pm
by zoomtheline
I decided I can't get on with anything Roland, The SP samplers were so annoying to use.
MC's are more immediate but the ones I have had a go on didn't sound that great and I have not tried a 909

MPC's are just as infuriating until you install the JJOS and then It becomes 100x better

Korg Samplers, ESX is really fast and easy but the noise is a tad annoying but there are ways around it but...
The sampler I go to everytime I want to do a beat/ loop I just blast it out on the ESmk2. So quick and easy to get something good going and then If you want to take the beat further onto something a bit more in depth at least you have quickly written it and its less time on a more complex sampler/groovebox.

Have a Memory man too for guitar which is good for on the fly loops in live situ

Re: sampling-groovebox-sequencer-workstation

Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:38 am
by computron
The rs7000 is awesome.much more then the MC 909.The rs7000 does have the ability to "time strech" The user interface is not friendly at all and it takes a lot of time with either the rs7000 or the rm1x to know what you are doing with them.Both IMHO are more rewarding in the end then any of the MC"s.The sequencers are king! Only the mpc's are a better hardware sequencer.The ESK electribes are very easy to use samplers and great fun. I do not find the MPC interface Infuriating at all.The only time I ever had a issue with a mpc was because of using the JJOS. Out of all the one you mentioned if you have time to learn a rs7000 is awesome .I own in the order I got them

rm1x-still a great sequencer
Rs7000-great sequencer plus good sampler
a mpc1000-a better sampler sequencer
a second mpc 1000-Just to have two for live
A korg electribe ESK-just a fun sampler
A mpc 5000 -the ultimate hardware weapon of choice

I owned a mc 303 a 505 and two mc 909's(the one I bought broke right away)none of the mcs stayed in my set up but the might Yamaha box's did even after having 3 mighty MPC's

Re: sampling-groovebox-sequencer-workstation

Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 3:36 am
by Zamise
Yeah, the RS does have a time stretch job for the samples, but keep in mind it doesn't do it in realtime which takes a good amount of processing power that some folks come to expect from newer gear and softwares. It has to be stopped and processed, original samp quality is lossed, and it can take a bit of a wait on longer samples. Its not warper either, you have to calculate out or guesstimate matching times to stretch it to if they are non matching bpms. Not fun with something like 92.3 to a 120.0 bpm. Something like 60 bpms to match 120 is easy , just double it. Might also be good to introduce yourself to the power of the sample slice job on the RS instead of stretching it. There is also a bpm stretch on it which is often pretty handy, not the same as stretching a sample, instead it shortens or lengthens a phrase, its notes and settings in certain percentages, non-destructively, realtime.

Re: sampling-groovebox-sequencer-workstation

Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 6:25 am
by I12
Zamise wrote:
I12 wrote:And yet all of them have some ridiculously stupid interface/slow/missing /needs a convoluted work around os implementation that could relatively easily been fixed with an update or a mk2.

that never was!
Well get to it dude.
I cant even comb my hair :o

Re: sampling-groovebox-sequencer-workstation

Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 3:42 pm
by Fatbenelton
How about the Roland MV8000 or MV8800?