any digital synth with a random button?

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Re: any digital synth with a random button?

Post by V301H » Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:22 am

Dr. T's DX Heaven, one of the first Patch Editor/Librarian computer programs for the DX-7 in the 80's has Random Patch generation. There may be newer programs for the DX-7 and other synths with this capability.
Last edited by V301H on Sat Jan 29, 2011 9:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: any digital synth with a random button?

Post by White » Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:21 am

Although all these synths have a random button, you WILL need to tweak the sound to get it how you want it.
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Re: any digital synth with a random button?

Post by griffin avid » Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:25 pm

God, YESSS! Synthesis without knowledge, effort, skill, or talent. PERFECT! YESSSSSS!

The good news is that I get to apply all the effort, skill and talent AFTER the synthesis part too.
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Re: any digital synth with a random button?

Post by mama. » Fri Jan 28, 2011 3:23 pm

im not sure if that post was sarcastic but i don't see anything wrong with random patching integrity wise. i never really have any sound in mind. i imagine ill have to press the button so many times before something interesting shows up, and tweak it from there. its would show me a lot about something like DX7 which i only know 1% of what it can do.

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Re: any digital synth with a random button?

Post by balma » Fri Jan 28, 2011 5:16 pm

Automatic Gainsay wrote:God, YESSS! Synthesis without knowledge, effort, skill, or talent. PERFECT! YESSSSSS!

Wow, that was trollish.
Still.

the bigger they are, the harder they fall.
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Re: any digital synth with a random button?

Post by pflosi » Fri Jan 28, 2011 6:02 pm

not exactly a synth, but taking out the batteries long enough produces random patterns on roland TR / TB machines :? they're always awful though :)
Automatic Gainsay wrote:God, YESSS! Synthesis without knowledge, effort, skill, or talent. PERFECT! YESSSSSS!

Wow, that was trollish.
Still.
isn't that what romplers and preset machines are for anyway? now THAT would save the OP a lot of time ;)

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Re: any digital synth with a random button?

Post by meatballfulton » Fri Jan 28, 2011 6:48 pm

Sometimes when I'm bored, I'll fire up the patch randomizers on my editors and softsynths and listen to what comes out.

Maybe 1 in 10 comes out interesting enough to save for further tweakage.
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Re: any digital synth with a random button?

Post by balma » Fri Jan 28, 2011 7:00 pm

Yeah maybe when I have half n hour hitting buttons trying to create one nice patch, maybe I should spend half'n' hour pressing the button RANDOMIZE and by mere coincidence I would get 5-6 decent patches,..
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Re: any digital synth with a random button?

Post by aeon » Fri Jan 28, 2011 7:40 pm

I find the process of randomization of patch params to be more productive when the params are masked for depth of randomization.

In any case, it can be a nice way to go when you don’t want to be wholly deterministic about the creative process. Such a choice isn’t always about a lack of skill.


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Re: any digital synth with a random button?

Post by balma » Fri Jan 28, 2011 8:00 pm

aeon wrote:I find the process of randomization of patch params to be more productive when the params are masked for depth of randomization.

In any case, it can be a nice way to go when you don’t want to be wholly deterministic about the creative process. Such a choice isn’t always about a lack of skill.


cheers,
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you are lying Aeon, I can clearly hear when your patches have been designed thorugh random adjustments of parameters. Your music sounds less proud of you, :lol:
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Re: any digital synth with a random button?

Post by griffin avid » Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:12 pm

Well, there's always credit to be given. An art teacher once said to me "Anything you don't fix is done on purpose."
So there's the Ear that says What sounds to use and when. I like Random because it removes the limitation of my own imagination. I am a big fan of experimentation...of not always knowing what's going to happen.

A synth designer....either Dave Smith or maybe Angus from Moog Music said something to the effect that there was a little loss in the joy of designing synths because your technical knowledge removes the wonder of stumbling across something new because you know what everything does and can predict the results of your work.

...like it was more fun in the beginning because you didn't know what would happen if you plugged this into this....
I would get bored with myself if every sound started out the same way....
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Even for a ROMpler, preset surfing can be tedious....I found that the Motif sucked out all my energy. It has too many patches. You have to search through them ALL just to be sure you're picking the right sound among the 40+ choices of upright Bass. Constantly A/Bing Let's see, is it 17 or 36? But 22 sounded pretty good too. By the time you settle on a sound you forgot what you were doing.
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Re: any digital synth with a random button?

Post by balma » Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:37 pm

any product of the nature has an important and aleatory factor on it. Random is a formula from the nature, on absolutely all its products.

Even the most perfect and repetitive square box coming from an industrial line ensambling machine, has a lot of chaos and aleatory properties if you look closer and closer.


I know this is a "listing" thread so let's go deeper into the random meaning.

Let's take a look to the random function on the command station

If you take a glance to it, you could end judging it as another sterile rompler pruduct, that has thousands of patches, thousands of arppegios, little phrases that sound standarized on other similar products.

But it has a HUGE engine. Not easy to program, most of the owners, barely access the patch edit section to create new patches from scratch. Furthermore, most of the owners barely scratch the surface of a brave new world of dealing with static samples from a creative point of view.

Since it works with simple frozen, static, zombie samples, a lot of programming functions, can affect them in such intrincate ways, that the most simple sample takes new perspectives when manipulated by its engine.

Something I love from, is the lot of random parameters that you can add to a single patch.

there are 3 different types of randomizers for each parameter, excluding the random LFO, there are also white and pink noise. Each patch, has 4 instruments (like most of the romples) but there are 24 empty slots from a MODULATION MATRIX, to affect each instrument. (96 per patch) You can delay the start (sync with tempo), add a different CHORUS level to each one of the instruments inside a patch, you can link samplestart, sampleloop, sampleretrigger, to a clock divisor, to any ADSR, to two LFOS, to a 4gainX multiplicator. You can modulate pitch with the filter envelope, or viceversa, you can sync the different stages of each ADSR envelope to the tempo, you create rich and intrincate interactions between each instrument and an arppegio, and design in a depth way, each arpeggio. Duplicate or reduce in half the tempo inside a patch, without changing the external clock. the velocity of the LFO 2 can be modulated by the depth of the LFO 1 or vicecersa, or you can link two LFOs, merge them, and send them to a single parameter.
16 blank controllers, can be fully programmed to modulated each parameter, or a single knob movement, can modulate 96 different parameters, if you want it in that way. A single knob tweak, can reduce filter of instrument 1, increase reso on instrument 2, affect LFO on instrument 3, affet sample start on instrument 4. There, you have other 92 things to do with that knob. There's a fantastic versatility of assigning functions to its controllers.

In certain way, is a very experimental system, and maybe one of the best digital synths ever, to start to compose a patch from zero. Real scratch programming.

the possibilities are so endless, that a RANDOM function was added. I mean, you could keep pressing this random button ever, and sometimes so weird things appear, because there are so much variables in game, that the combination of them is ...... endless. This synth has also fully programmable aftertouch (4 per voice),and a fully programmable arppegio section that allows you to store permanently (like they were presets) 100 user arppegio patterns. And they can be linked to a patch, and the patch can interact in very very elastic ways with its arpeggio.

At the end, thousands of static, sterile elements very digital, interacting, can produce very natural sounds.

I always use RANDOM elements on my command station patterns. For example

Instrument 1: random + 03 fine tune
Instrument 2: random -02 fine tune
Instrument 3: random + 05 sample start
Instrument 4: random +12 chorus depth

There, I use 4 of the 96 slots.... isn't this concept great????????? Working in such depth ways with rompler sounds?


Of course this could be reaaaaaally time consuming. So there's another great function added: copy patchcords.

Yeah I can make REFERENCE PATCHES. I spend a day, programming 96 different SOURCE ---- DESTINATION parameters like those ones listed before, and create a category (you can create categories to organize your patches) and then, IMPORT them to your current patch on edition.....

There is another type of random, called variation, 1 per LFO (2 lfos per voice * 4 ) on a range of 0-100, that makes slight variances on a LFO signal flow, so, you can have 4 exact sine LFOS oscillating, but if you add variation, they will oscillate on 4 different ways,.....

The best analogy for a command station, is a LEGO BASIC. There's no picture on the box cover. Only multiple basic pieces of legos of different ways. You can built and airplane or a jewish church....

random is a very important factor, for naturalizing your digital signal flows. LOTS, lots of random functions on the command station, that when are combined, holy s**t. This thing can sound so amazing.

Now Griffin Avid:

when you work with different instruments at the same time, random will come to visit you wheter you ask for it or no.

Because 4-5 synths, playing at the same time, let's say, you have 16 patterns on synth 1 on notes C -D- F, 32 patterns on synth 2 on notes D F G, 16 patterns on notes C D E on synth 3, etc etc etc.

There you sync them, and trigger them at the same time, and start to random selection of patterns on each one of them.

ZAZ!!! suddenly, they sound harmonized. Do you intentionally tried to obtain that?? Nope, but you are the precursor of that harmonic realization. Be in control of your synths, but always keep your doors open to happy coincidences, to casualties, to random.


Sometimes I think that I have a random button on my brain, I do 50% of very hard work programming, and left 50% to HAPPY COINCIDENCES.

Is hard to describe my happiness, when I see all those synths full of my sounds and patterns, on STANDBY blinking.

Of course, I create ordenated, millitary groups of sequences. But I use RANDOM , when combining several of them.

Is like I found a great formula, a good balance, between an ordenated systematic huge world of sequences, and then, and them,take a morter and pestle, and mix them in the most intrincated ways.

| can't stand the idea, to sit down in front of a synth and saying: I'm gonna do this. And then, following a systematic and ortodox method to proceed to compose the song is on my head. I have an idea, of course, but I let the improvisation, and chaos, to invade it.
Last edited by balma on Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: any digital synth with a random button?

Post by aredj » Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:53 pm

Wow... quite a read there :D

Spectralis does random... both (categorized) patches and pattern... whats cool about the pattern random is that its bases the results on what patterns are already in the box...

If you make glitch... you'll get random glitched patterns...! Can be good fun...

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Re: any digital synth with a random button?

Post by balma » Sat Jan 29, 2011 12:00 am

aredj wrote:Wow... quite a read there :D

Spectralis does random... both (categorized) patches and pattern... whats cool about the pattern random is that its bases the results on what patterns are already in the box...

If you make glitch... you'll get random glitched patterns...! Can be good fun...

f**k man! You made get a new credit card. I'll get it next week, let's see if that guy stills having the Spectralis 1, if don't, I'll save a little bit more, and get the octatrack

PD I edited it a little bit. Take in consideration, now I have three command stations....
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Re: any digital synth with a random button?

Post by yamaha22 » Sat Jan 29, 2011 12:30 am

meh, it's the finished product that matters the most.

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