Synthi still made?

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Hybrid88
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Re: Synthi still made?

Post by Hybrid88 » Thu Feb 03, 2011 8:02 am

Stab Frenzy wrote:Can't wait til the new ones come out so people start talking about how they're not as fat as the old ones.
Yeah, but how many people have actually used one? You'd have to be picky. :lol:

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Re: Synthi still made?

Post by adhmzaiusz » Thu Feb 03, 2011 9:11 am

For what it is, imo the price is really out there. Weren't these things supposed to be budget synths in their day? Would be nice to have the option of buying it as a kit to put together yourself, that would sell me on it
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Re: Synthi still made?

Post by Ry-Fi » Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:46 am

Stab Frenzy wrote:I hope they do start making them again, the dude who cloned the board and had the PCB up for sale so you could make your own for about $1500 took it down, due to their being the option of buying new ones still.

Wow, what an ugly, poorly constructed sentence. :(
:lol: Indeed!

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Re: Synthi still made?

Post by Stab Frenzy » Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:55 am

adhmzaiusz wrote:For what it is, imo the price is really out there. Weren't these things supposed to be budget synths in their day? Would be nice to have the option of buying it as a kit to put together yourself, that would sell me on it
"In their day" there was no such thing as a budget synth, they were all expensive. The VCS3 was 330 pounds when it came out in 1969, going by average earnings that's over 7,000 pounds in today's money, so these ones are less than half the original price. Bargain.

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Re: Synthi still made?

Post by Hybrid88 » Thu Feb 03, 2011 11:22 am

I think maybe why people could think they were a budget synth is probably because relative to what you could get from EMS before, (the Synthi 100) they were. Kind of like how the minimoog was relatively cheap and attractive when compared to the only previous available moogs, ie modular systems. Of course things have changed a lot since then.

I agree a DIY option would be great, anyone nerdy enough to want one would probably already know about electronics anyway. 8-)

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Re: Synthi still made?

Post by nathanscribe » Thu Feb 03, 2011 11:38 am

Excellent. It's time to sell some internal organs.

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Re: Synthi still made?

Post by Syn303 » Thu Feb 03, 2011 12:00 pm

There are the AS (Analogue Systems) EMS Synthi eurorack modules, a much cheaper option, of course no pin-matrix though.
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Re: Synthi still made?

Post by adhmzaiusz » Thu Feb 03, 2011 6:42 pm

Stab Frenzy wrote:
adhmzaiusz wrote:For what it is, imo the price is really out there. Weren't these things supposed to be budget synths in their day? Would be nice to have the option of buying it as a kit to put together yourself, that would sell me on it
"In their day" there was no such thing as a budget synth, they were all expensive. The VCS3 was 330 pounds when it came out in 1969, going by average earnings that's over 7,000 pounds in today's money, so these ones are less than half the original price. Bargain.
Have you looked at the EMS site? So I guess £1600 in 1998's money is more like £3000 13 years later? I think its not about actual value of money but cashing in on vintage hype. £1600 is way more reasonable imo
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Re: Synthi still made?

Post by adhmzaiusz » Thu Feb 03, 2011 6:45 pm

adhmzaiusz wrote:
Stab Frenzy wrote:
adhmzaiusz wrote:For what it is, imo the price is really out there. Weren't these things supposed to be budget synths in their day? Would be nice to have the option of buying it as a kit to put together yourself, that would sell me on it
"In their day" there was no such thing as a budget synth, they were all expensive. The VCS3 was 330 pounds when it came out in 1969, going by average earnings that's over 7,000 pounds in today's money, so these ones are less than half the original price. Bargain.
Have you looked at the EMS site? So I guess £1600 in 1998's money is more like £3000 13 years later? I think its not about actual value of money but cashing in on vintage hype. £1600 is way more reasonable imo
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Re: Synthi still made?

Post by Stab Frenzy » Fri Feb 04, 2011 3:07 am

a) 1998 was hardly 'in their day'.
b) they were making so little money from selling them at that price that production slowed pretty much to a standstill, hence the waiting list today. I guess you haven't done much building of analogue electronics, but there's a surprisingly large amount of work that goes into putting them together and calibrating them. Someone has to pay for those staff hours, and someone has to pay for the components that go into the circuits.

If you don't like the price then buy something else, there's more choice for analogue synths now than there ever has been in the past. Be happy that there are new EMS machines on the way and the crazy second-hand prices should come down, don't whine about it like some spoiled teenager. :thumbleft:

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Re: Synthi still made?

Post by adhmzaiusz » Fri Feb 04, 2011 7:09 am

Stab Frenzy wrote:a) 1998 was hardly 'in their day'.
b) they were making so little money from selling them at that price that production slowed pretty much to a standstill, hence the waiting list today. I guess you haven't done much building of analogue electronics, but there's a surprisingly large amount of work that goes into putting them together and calibrating them. Someone has to pay for those staff hours, and someone has to pay for the components that go into the circuits.

If you don't like the price then buy something else, there's more choice for analogue synths now than there ever has been in the past. Be happy that there are new EMS machines on the way and the crazy second-hand prices should come down, don't whine about it like some spoiled teenager. :thumbleft:
a)"In their day" was intended to mean when they were first conceived-- dont jump to conclusions, I was only referring to the last updated 1998 price because to me 13 years isn't long to jump up so high. In 13 years I haven't noticed anything synthwise or anything else for that matter skyrocket in price like this (except of course vintage synth hype). Manufacturers keep 'current' products in a certain price range, for example Roland and Clavia have always had their synths around a certain price range and they never really changed in the last 13 years. I understand that this is probably mostly handbuilt, but come on Tom Oberheim has kept things reasonable, as has Dave smith and Even synths like the andromeda that were in long production stayed the same price. If you ask me the price on the Synthi is just following vintage hype.

b) Again, don't jump to conclusions, I build synths yes, and repair them so I do know exactly what goes into it, I would love as I said to have it as a kit if you didn't read my post. I can build a SLMS in 2 days, and would love to be up for the challenge of building a project such as the synthi A. And I agree, it is good to see that there are new EMS machines on the way.

C) Which "value through time" converter were you using for your price?

D) As a moderator and a professional representative to this site, I do not appreciate your condescending tone as to call me a "whining teenager", I am entitled to my opinion and not be mocked by you as to my opinion. Thank you.
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Re: Synthi still made?

Post by Stab Frenzy » Fri Feb 04, 2011 8:04 am

I think you're taking yourself a little seriously there chum. I didn't call you a whining teenager, in fact I inferred that you weren't a whining teenager and shouldn't be acting like one. :D

So you build and repair synths and you still think the Synthi should be cheaper? I might suggest you're being unrealistic.

Regardless of what value over time tool you use, 330 pounds in 1969 is more than 3300 pounds now. I don't mind which one you use, pick any.

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Re: Synthi still made?

Post by adhmzaiusz » Fri Feb 04, 2011 9:45 am

Stab Frenzy wrote:So you build and repair synths and you still think the Synthi should be cheaper? I might suggest you're being unrealistic.
I don't know if you personally have experience building anything, but unless you have you shouldn't comment as to knowing that my claim is unrealistic or not. Sometimes things look alot more difficult than they really are, if I went and built a clone of say an ARP odyssey (legalities aside), and decided to sell it, its value would most likely be based on its components and little more for build time since it did not have the authentic ARP name on it. I already sourced all of the parts I needed to build the oscillators, and it was very cheap.

A sound lab mini synth can be built for approx $150, it sounds great and comparable to alot of classic monos, and uses alot of basic components just like all synths do. Sure, all synthis use scarce parts ie. TAB101 for ring mod, a joystick and battleship modulation bay, and a bunch of other things that are probably discontinued but to pay that much for a 3 osc synth is (imo) outrageous. I don't want to compare the SLMS to the Synthi A directly or give the impression I am, but I just wanted to highlight that a great sounding synth can be built for low cost. Anyway, Robin is free to do whatever he wants to do, I still really want a Synthi myself and if I ever had that much money I'd probably pay even though it would hurt alot. But thats what GAS is, is it not?
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Re: Synthi still made?

Post by Stab Frenzy » Fri Feb 04, 2011 10:58 am

Yeah I've built two x0xb0xen both with a whole heap of mods including some I made up myself, a couple of elby eurorack modules, two 1176 clones, an SSL mix bus compressor clone, I designed and built a eurorack MS encoder/decoder and I've built and programmed a few other things like a staircase that sends midi notes from pressure sensors in the steps, a shelving system that uses RFID and IR to track objects placed in it and then has an ambient lighting display to indicate how different objects are related to one another and a few other similar projects. Before that I worked for a company building valve studio equipment.

I know how much cost, time and energy goes into running a company making this kind of stuff. It's really hard work, much harder than just making a bit of DIY stuff. Don't forget that on top of production costs you've also got R&D to recoup, plus you need to be working on the next thing you're putting out. Unless you redesign things to include SMT components so the boards can be cheaply mass produced small runs need to be made by hand, and making things by hand takes a long time. That guy who cloned the Synthi was selling boards for 100 pounds, the parts were going to be about another 1000 if I recall correctly, I'm not sure if that included the case or not. And he wasn't trying to run a business or make a profit.

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Re: Synthi still made?

Post by nathanscribe » Fri Feb 04, 2011 12:15 pm

adhmzaiusz wrote:I already sourced all of the parts I needed to build the oscillators, and it was very cheap.
I find the basic circuit-level components often to be the cheapest part of a build. I also find soldering a few hundred parts to a PCB one of the easiest parts of the build, it's pretty much auto-pilot and can be done quickly compared to all the wiring and case construction etc.

DSI can keep costs down because there is a very high level of integration. There's a very good reason why Moog don't have a polyphonic Voyager. There's a massive difference in the way the two synths are made. I'd hazard the EMS stuff is closer in internal construction to the Moog than the DSI.

None of this brings down the price of a Synthi. Oh well, back to work.

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