If Korg can make a Monotron that sells for $65...

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RD9
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Re: If Korg can make a Monotron that sells for $65...

Post by RD9 » Sat Mar 05, 2011 7:02 pm

Slapping-a-label-on jokes aside, I still wonder if it's possible to produce a desktop unit in between a Dark Energy and a Monotron with a Korg filter that could still be useful and profitable. The Monotron could use bigger knobs, envelopes, and do away with the silly ribbon controller and wood panels.

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Re: If Korg can make a Monotron that sells for $65...

Post by griffin avid » Sat Mar 05, 2011 9:57 pm

I got to be honest. I only care about myself (in most cases).
Why not just build the damn thing yourself?

Spend whatever it takes to get what you want.
Want to add XYZ? Pay some electronics whiz to add it.
Joke back to the front, : slap a sticker on it with YOUR NAME in the KORG font.

Why do you want a huge company to build a zillion of them? When you need only one.
Why must they be cheap? When it's an investment in your music (career?)
Why not simply ask for it to be 'Worth the money to me'? AND if you can dedicate yourself to dreaming about it....

Well, I think dreams ARE worth investing in.

I think like most people, it's not really about the synth at all, it's that you want your FAVORITE company involved.
Why the F are you asking KORG to dive in when there are 20+ companies closer to being able to make your dream product?
Ask them instead.

As stated, the Monotron was an impulse buy. It's small and oh so cute.
It's a toy. fun for 1/2 an hour. To be honest (again) you must have something in your studio that does that better- that cost much, much more.

Instead of looking at your bicycle and thinking how they could make it faster by adding an engine, buy a motorcycle. Instead of looking at that and thinking about bigger and better side cars, buy a car. Instead of fantasizing about trunk space, buy a van.
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Re: If Korg can make a Monotron that sells for $65...

Post by Yoozer » Sat Mar 05, 2011 11:06 pm

griffin avid wrote: I think like most people, it's not really about the synth at all, it's that you want your FAVORITE company involved.
Dingdingding, we got a winner.

In the end people just want that $500 Jupiter 8 again.
cartesia wrote:Everyone says it is impossible.. but as people have stated here.. it works pretty much with modular components....
And you know why this works?

It's because a modular component exists only as a faceplate with a PCB, inputs and knobs bolted onto it. No case has to be designed. x0xb0xes come in a plastic box that looks kind of weird. It looks like that because that's one of the cheapest enclosures to get that offers enough room for the device. Modular components do not have to worry about that.

Modular components do not have to worry about a powersupply. It's already standardized.

A modular module does not have to appeal to a lot of people. It can do one thing well; designing an entire synthesizer is harder. You could of course plug in all the separate circuit boards, but then you'd remove the form factor appeal - but doing everything on a single PCB takes longer to develop. If you wanted a boxy synthesizer, you would've gotten the modules separately. Producing a small batch is entirely possible, because you just need one dude with a 'scope and a soldering station.
So if a number of separate modules can be produced by a company nowhere near the size of korg for a reasonable price.. korg obviously can't produce a single product with the same features that costs anywhere less than twice as much right?

with regards to building it myself, I know nothing about analog circuits, but you can all bite me when I've finished my step sequencer for 1/20th the cost of the ones on the market.. and I laugh in your face if you paid for something with a maximum of 16 steps per sequence.
Already done. It's called an Arduino, and yes, it's really cheap. And because you just had to build a single one, you didn't have to quit your day job. Since it was for yourself, your time was "free" anyway.
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Re: If Korg can make a Monotron that sells for $65...

Post by Nannerfan » Sun Mar 06, 2011 1:03 am

Stab Frenzy wrote:
Nannerfan wrote:
Stab Frenzy wrote:that's the reason that people put up with the fact that you can't actually use it for anything except sound effects.
This I don't agree with.
I think the Monotron being such a "near miss" is why people are rushing to mod them.

If they they just made the Monotron able to keytrack correctly.. be it better keys, CV/GATE or MIDI. It would be a great cheap analog source for bass and leads. Worth about $250 new IMO.

bastards...
Actually you do agree with me. That's what I'm saying, they're impossible to play melodies on due to the lack of keyboard, CV or MIDI input.
And thats why I didn't agree.. tons of people are not putting up with that fact and modding them.

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Re: If Korg can make a Monotron that sells for $65...

Post by soundwave106 » Sun Mar 06, 2011 4:38 am

tallowwaters wrote:Trust me, if you were here for the shitstorm that was the release of the MEK, you would know. I believe that thread was 40 pages of some of the most ludicrous bitching and moaning I've ever read in my life.
The last big analog synthesizer released by a major, the Alesis Andromeda, suffered from the same pattern. :roll: It's probably gotten more popular now that it is no longer available new. *headdesk*

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Re: If Korg can make a Monotron that sells for $65...

Post by Stab Frenzy » Sun Mar 06, 2011 8:33 am

If I wanted something that sounded like an MS-20 I'd be looking at something like this:

Image

It's got all the ingredients of the MS-20 (except the ESP), an extra envelope thrown in because having less than two is silly, and would be cheaper than an MS-20 and able to be expanded. And the SY-02 is the closest thing to the MS-20 filter out there, closer I imagine than the Monotron.

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Re: If Korg can make a Monotron that sells for $65...

Post by MitchK1989 » Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:43 pm

Asys actually does make an emulation of the ESP don't they? It's definitely more than possible to replicate the ESP in modularland.

though really, I'm of the opinion that if you want an MS-20, but a damn MS-20 :lol:

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Re: If Korg can make a Monotron that sells for $65...

Post by RD9 » Sun Mar 06, 2011 9:40 pm

Stab Frenzy wrote:If I wanted something that sounded like an MS-20 I'd be looking at something like this:

Image

It's got all the ingredients of the MS-20 (except the ESP), an extra envelope thrown in because having less than two is silly, and would be cheaper than an MS-20 and able to be expanded. And the SY-02 is the closest thing to the MS-20 filter out there, closer I imagine than the Monotron.
That's an excellent combo of modules, although probably a big leap in cost so it's kind of a different target market than the one I was talking about. I think people are still kind of fixated on trying to literally turn the Monotron into an MS-20, which we all would agree is unrealistic. Same goes with the $500 Jupiter 8 comment. That's not at all the point.

The thing that the Monoton, Dark Energy, Lancet, Krakken, Mopho, et al, also offer is a nice, affordable, and compact form factor that's ready to use, which is a missing piece in this puzzle. There are users who may not really be into a traditional modular approach and may be looking for unit that's already pieced together and ready to use straight out of the box AND in a nice enclosure (not to mention under $700 or so). There's an intimidation factor with modular because of the learning curve, plus a lot of people find it harder to plan for a big investment like $900-1000+.

For most advanced users like you this may sound nonsensical, but for others it may be more realistic even if it doesn't seem like a good bargain at first. Kind of like the MicroKorg, which is not really the best bargain if you think about it, but still a lot of people buy them and get into synths because of it.

***That said, that Doepfer (oops Analogue Solutions) example you posted is excellent for an MS-20 discussion. I'm surprised it hasn't come up more often in MS-20 threads.
Last edited by RD9 on Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: If Korg can make a Monotron that sells for $65...

Post by smoothcriminal » Sun Mar 06, 2011 10:39 pm

RD9 wrote:
smoothcriminal wrote:I should add that, FYI, you can buy pretty much the exact synth suggested in the OP (2 VCO, LFO, EG, VCF, MIDI) for less than $500, it's called Atomo Labs Krakken.
Now THAT is a great example! If Korg were to design a better enclosure for something that does what that does PLUS the 35 filter, I wouldn't mind paying extra. ;)
This is why I don't understand the negative reaction to the OP. If a couple of dudes in Peru can run a successful business selling analog gear with equivalent specs for less $$ than the OP was commenting on, I fail to see why people here are acting like the idea of one of the largest synthesizer manufacturers in the world doing the same thing is infuriatingly implausible. Improbable? Sure, and I think it's actually an interesting discussion to speculate why Korg won't do it. But it's hard to see why cost/parts/labor/design is a valid counter-argument when there are real-world examples of it being possible. I'm guessing the actual reason is just that large manufacturers would rather reserved their analog line for the professional studio/stage market where price isn't an object. Why sell a $500 analog when pros will gratefully spend $2500 on an instrument?

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Re: If Korg can make a Monotron that sells for $65...

Post by Em Pe Ge » Mon Mar 07, 2011 2:40 am

i just want a MIDI Monotron... i think i might buy that kit and try to make one.

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Re: If Korg can make a Monotron that sells for $65...

Post by Stab Frenzy » Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:22 am

RD9 wrote:The thing that the Monoton, Dark Energy, Lancet, Krakken, Mopho, et al, also offer is a nice, affordable, and compact form factor that's ready to use, which is a missing piece in this puzzle. There are users who may not really be into a traditional modular approach and may be looking for unit that's already pieced together and ready to use straight out of the box AND in a nice enclosure (not to mention under $700 or so).
:? That market is already served by the Monoton, Dark Energy, Lancet, Krakken, Mopho, et al. There is no large niche available for Korg to exploit.
smoothcriminal wrote:If a couple of dudes in Peru can run a successful business selling analog gear with equivalent specs for less $$ than the OP was commenting on, I fail to see why people here are acting like the idea of one of the largest synthesizer manufacturers in the world doing the same thing is infuriatingly implausible. Improbable? Sure, and I think it's actually an interesting discussion to speculate why Korg won't do it.
Because Korg are looking for a bigger market and profit margin than 'a couple of dudes in Peru'. Large companies won't bother doing something unless they're going to make lots of money from it, 'a couple of dudes in Peru' will do something just for the love of it and not worry if they're only making enough money to pay themselves a little bit for their time.

Anyway, this has been explained many times in this thread and others, I'm not going to bother repeating myself any more.

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Re: If Korg can make a Monotron that sells for $65...

Post by smoothcriminal » Mon Mar 07, 2011 7:37 am

Pure unfounded speculation on your part that Atomo Labs doesn't turn a healthy profit.

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Re: If Korg can make a Monotron that sells for $65...

Post by Stab Frenzy » Mon Mar 07, 2011 7:50 am

I'm 100% sure that they aren't selling enough to be making what Korg considers a healthy profit.

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Re: If Korg can make a Monotron that sells for $65...

Post by smoothcriminal » Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:03 am

That is correct - if Korg were to set aside a couple of employees to hand-assemble synths, the resulting profit wouldn't compare to the profits made from their mass-produced products. Not sure how that's germane, but it's certainly a fact.

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Re: If Korg can make a Monotron that sells for $65...

Post by Stab Frenzy » Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:09 am

It's relevant because people are asking "Why don't Korg do this?" and I'm saying "Because Korg are a big company who are interested in making large amounts of money so that they continue to be a big company, and this would not generate that kind of money."

Anyway, I broke my promise not to keep repeating myself to people that don't understand economics. Shame on me.

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