Roland Connect - Countdown!

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Re: Roland Connect - Countdown!

Post by Ashe37 » Thu Apr 07, 2011 12:56 am

Primal Drive wrote:The Kronos and the Jupiter 80 are both the future of performing synthesis and if it's too much for you then crawl back into your caves and live in the past.

Uhh...

Not really

The Kronos is a different beast than this Roland thing. Its a workstation... a close relative of what was probably the pinnacle of keyboard workstations. With several built-in synthesis engines for, you know, doing synthesis. It can be used for performance sure but its mean for composition even more.
knolan wrote:I'm just delighted that in 2011 that the likes of Roland are prepared to take a risk and release such an instrument.
Risk? What risk? Its just a simplified version of the current Fantom with most of the SuperNatural cards already inserted! There is no risk involved in removing a sequencer largely regarded to be seriously buggy and unusable by its owners (I.e. Fantom G owners.) OO A TOUCH SCREEN! Ready to compete with the Triton released by Korg in 1999!

The Jupiwhosiwhatsis had three modeled engines (brass, piano, strings) and the rompler engine- Like they can't even be bothered with a VA synth anymore. Or, god forbid, they could have shipped it with an emulation of the original jupiter. But no- the synths are just sampled. So basically its a Fantom with no sequencer, four-way multitimbrality, and most of the (ARX?) cards in it. 256 voices that vary with DSP load (sounds like a Virus) and four parallel MFX channels plus one for drums.

But this is Vintage Synth Explorer, not Vintage Rompler Explorer, so we're going to appreciate synthesis features over the sample engine (that you can't load samples into) with an unknown sample ROM size. The sample engine- in fact the entire engine on the synth- is just what some feared it would be- a rehash of the Fantom engine. Mostly a rehash of the *original* fantom engine judging from the lack of sample memory. Oh yeah, it has the Supernatural stuff- but it does NOT have a VA engine, D-50 emulation, or anything else that might make it more tempting for us.

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Re: Roland Connect - Countdown!

Post by Ashe37 » Thu Apr 07, 2011 12:57 am

Automatic Gainsay wrote:Will the people who honestly expected that the Jupiter 80 was going to be an analog synth, as well as those people who are mad that the Jupiter 80 isn't "vintage" enough in its focus, please raise their hands?

Anyone?

I at least expected some form of VA engine, even just the GAIA's engine... but it doesn't even have that!

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Re: Roland Connect - Countdown!

Post by StepLogik » Thu Apr 07, 2011 1:09 am

Ashe37 wrote: But this is Vintage Synth Explorer, not Vintage Rompler Explorer ...
:lol: :lol:

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Re: Roland Connect - Countdown!

Post by knolan » Thu Apr 07, 2011 2:06 am

Ashe37 -

The JD800 does not have anything but PCM samples as oscillators, but the 100 or so chose are so clever that it remains one of the most versatile synthesizers for sound design. I use numerous JD800s and it never ceases to amaze me in this regard. THE best pad sound I've ever used is a three sawtooth layered pad from the JD800. With different speed vibrato on each partial, it's huge. But the sawtooth is a sampled one.

So it doesn't matter how big the ROM is or whether you can load your own - you can find other instruments for that. To me, the JP80 offers a wide enough palette of very clever samples put though the supernatural system. Coupled to the layering capabilities (up to 27 oscillators), great sounding filters and effects, with huge polyphony and fabulous realtime control; all mean that there are significant enough options available.

This is a risky synthesizer because at 6 octaves, big and chunky and in a more polyphonic synth styling and pricy, it might not actually sell in great numbers. And as seen here - people are divided on it. Compared to the likes of the Nords, slim line MOX and Kronos; the JP80 is definitely sticking its neck out. Even those register selection buttons below the keyboard are risky (I think they'll make playing live hugely exciting but there'll be many who disagree).

As said, despite the contention of the name; I believe Roland deserve praise for what they believe is a very high quality, serious and forward looking synth. I believe they are trying very hard to be true to their roots; and I do believe in this instance, as with the V-Synth GT, that they really are pushing themselves very hard to achieve a new direction in very high quality synthesis. I also own the V-Synth GT and there's so much that exquisite about that instrument; but the JP80 is clearly very different but equally formidable.

I know I'm pushing it hard (and I do not have any affiliation with Roland); but given its overall attributes and clearly high quality, even if not for everyone, I believe Roland should be given the benefit of the doubt, in this instance. Certainly in the face of lean budgets, countless soft synths, I'm personally delighted to see such a formidable performance synthesizer that's not trying to be all things to all people. Actually, to me it feels 'right'. I get it - and actually it seems more like the natural successor to the JD800 than the JP8.

Kevin.
Last edited by knolan on Thu Apr 07, 2011 2:16 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Roland Connect - Countdown!

Post by StepLogik » Thu Apr 07, 2011 2:12 am

poor yamaha, with all the hype on the jp-80 and monotribe, there's been nary a peep about their new MOX synth. :lol:

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Re: Roland Connect - Countdown!

Post by Ashe37 » Thu Apr 07, 2011 2:48 am

knolan wrote:Ashe37 -

The JD800 does not have anything but PCM samples as oscillators, but the 100 or so chose are so clever that it remains one of the most versatile synthesizers for sound design. I use numerous JD800s and it never ceases to amaze me in this regard. THE best pad sound I've ever used is a three sawtooth layered pad from the JD800. With different speed vibrato on each partial, it's huge. But the sawtooth is a sampled one.

So it doesn't matter how big the ROM is or whether you can load your own - you can find other instruments for that. To me, the JP80 offers a wide enough palette of very clever samples put though the supernatural system. Coupled to the layering capabilities (up to 27 oscillators), great sounding filters and effects, with huge polyphony and fabulous realtime control; all mean that there are significant enough options available.

Yes, and an M3, with the 73-key version currently running just slightly more than half the price of the J-80, can do rompler synthesis and VA... and a Kronos can do it even better. Both the M3 and the Kronos have touch screens and *more* real-time controls than the J-80. I don't see where its a big improvement over what is already available and i don't see where the rompler side of the J-80 would be better than a $1000 Juno-G or Juno-Gi either.

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Re: Roland Connect - Countdown!

Post by knolan » Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:52 am

While I see where you're coming from (as said I'm an OASYS owner and can't praise it enough); I still feel its worth keeping in mind that the new Juno's, though we love to hate them, are quite good sounding for what they're supposed to do. The J-80 is definitely a sizable step up from those, what with it's massive layering and supernatural sound. And while the Kronos has more physical controls, the synth engines, despite being very deep and exquisite sounding, are difficult to program. By comparison, the V-synth GT is unbelievable intuitive - perhaps the easiest of all modern synths to program, and it looks like the J-80 is in the same ilk. It looks incredibly intuitive and easy to program. That coupled to the D-beam controller (which I love) and selection buttons on the front of the keyboard, all merged with the supernatural controller-specific performance control, suggests to me that Roland have put a huge amount of effort into making this extremely powerful sonically, a breeze to program and a joy to perform on.

And - although it's expensive - it's actually cheap when compared to the top of the range Motif, Fantom and Kronos; and the extra features and physical aspects of it seem about like the right amount extra over a modern Juno.

All of this, plus the fact that it has massive polyphony and sounds very strong; lead me to believe that this is a real, earnest synthesizer for our times and is definitely not a hack-job by Roland. This deserves real attention, in my opinion. I think you are being a tat to hard on it (but genuinely do see where you're coming from). Roland do deserve scepticism given some of the releases of late - but this is, IMO, a new real contender.

I also like that Howard Jones was very honest about his appraisal of it. you can see that he does not regard it in the same way as the J-8 but in an understated way just reveals it's own, innate quality and I like that. Likewise the latest sonicstate video with the Roland expert states it all very succinctly and honestly. Overall, I think this is an real and earnest development by Roland.

I accept these point may not wash with you and many others - but feel they are worth putting out there in this instance.

Kevin.

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Re: Roland Connect - Countdown!

Post by Ashe37 » Thu Apr 07, 2011 12:24 pm

knolan wrote:And - although it's expensive - it's actually cheap when compared to the top of the range Motif, Fantom and Kronos; and the extra features and physical aspects of it seem about like the right amount extra over a modern Juno.
Kronos 73-Key $3499 at Novamusik

Jupiter 80- MSRP $3999 (which likely means $3500 street)

same price =/= "cheap when compared to"
knolan wrote:All of this, plus the fact that it has massive polyphony
I'll bet real actual money the massive polyphony is only when playing the rompler engine.

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Re: Roland Connect - Countdown!

Post by D-Collector » Thu Apr 07, 2011 12:33 pm

From his body language I think Jones was as honest as he could be. I assume he got one for free for the endorsement? Anyway, this beast could just as well been labeled a sampler / rompler / sample playback machine.

I have a more fitting name, the U-80.

Personally I have never seen the point in buying a SYNTH to get realistic violin, guitar or piano sounds. Emulation of such instruments may have been the goal in the synths birth, but they evolved beyond that. I can only guess that Paul Wiffen didn't try to emulate a sitar with the Laser Harp patch, or that Eric Persing's "Soundtrack" wasn't a bad attempt at an oboe?

When Roland (although we expected it) decides to name their latest sample player after one of the most influential synthesizers in history, uses the same styling and even get HoJo to promote it (a man who became famous for his SYNTH style) -we have a god given right to be sceptical.

Why? Because we love synthesizers. For us this is a hobby, a job, an obsession, a mental dysfunction.

I hope the Jupiter-80 has the capability and, like the D-50, ends up being regarded as a good SYNTH even though it tries to do something else. Or maybe it is too late.

Roland, PLEASE do like Korg did with the excellent Legacy plugin series and release your heritage in digital form.

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Re: Roland Connect - Countdown!

Post by realtrance » Thu Apr 07, 2011 4:35 pm

All I can say is, I'm very familiar with Roland stuff, have always been willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, and basically, this instrument, at this price point, with these features...... thanks, I'll keep my V-Synth and be happy with it for the rest of my life.

Back to Reaktor and Razor, for me.....

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Re: Roland Connect - Countdown!

Post by Hybrid88 » Fri Apr 08, 2011 12:11 pm

realtrance wrote:All I can say is, I'm very familiar with Roland stuff, have always been willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, and basically, this instrument, at this price point, with these features...... thanks, I'll keep my V-Synth and be happy with it for the rest of my life.

Back to Reaktor and Razor, for me.....
+1000, Couldn't agree more with everything you just said, Jupe 80 is just another one of a now ever growing line of really forgettable synths - and that's coming from someone that actually wants to support new Roland gear, there truly hasn't been anything from them that's made me even close to want to replace my V-Synth either...

This is the final straw for me, no more point wanting a synthesists dream synth from these guys, (chances are it has already been made), just a lot easier to simply accept it and ignore the inevitable feeling of dissapointment when every new product launch is around the corner. 8-)

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Re: Roland Connect - Countdown!

Post by philip » Fri Apr 08, 2011 8:45 pm


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Re: Roland Connect - Countdown!

Post by Automatic Gainsay » Fri Apr 08, 2011 8:58 pm

philip wrote:http://link.brightcove.com/services/pla ... 9775809001

this is bad really bad
:facepalm:
Yes, what a terrible tragedy that the Jupiter 8 so completely failed at it's intended purpose: being a live simulator of acoustic instruments.
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Re: Roland Connect - Countdown!

Post by theglyph » Sat Apr 09, 2011 12:11 am

Automatic Gainsay wrote: :facepalm:
Yes, what a terrible tragedy that the Jupiter 8 so completely failed at it's intended purpose: being a live simulator of acoustic instruments.
He mentions in the first video that they wanted to get the "analog" portion of the Jupiter 80 right! #-o
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Re: Roland Connect - Countdown!

Post by adhmzaiusz » Sat Apr 09, 2011 12:51 am

philip wrote:http://link.brightcove.com/services/pla ... 9775809001

this is bad really bad
All three of those videos make me feel really sick. The music is terrible, the sounds are cheesy and it disturbs me that the roland guy in the first video said roland has "30 years of dare I say baggage to contend with of what the jupiter meant" :roll:
Yea I agree roland, who needs that prehistoric analog technology anyways....
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