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Re: Korg Monotribe ?

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:01 pm
by Automatic Gainsay
AutomaticGainsay wrote:
Syn303 wrote:Auto-Tuning Analog
The Monotribe's auto-tuning circuitry provides stable chromatic playability, and will not go out of tune.
Damn, I was hoping for some "analog warmth."
Analog oscillator + automatic digital tuning = DCO

Re: Korg Monotribe ?

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:17 pm
by RD9
Automatic Gainsay wrote:
AutomaticGainsay wrote:
Syn303 wrote:Auto-Tuning Analog
The Monotribe's auto-tuning circuitry provides stable chromatic playability, and will not go out of tune.
Damn, I was hoping for some "analog warmth."
Analog oscillator + automatic digital tuning = DCO
Not sure about you guys, but I wouldn't consider osc drift to be a major "warmth" factor. To me warmth is more about the harmonic saturation and general non-harshness of an instrument. I suppose imprecision can be perceived as a warming factor but I would argue that a lot of old instruments we all consider "warm" dont really exhibit perceivable drift (most of the time). It's a slight red herring to say that a stable oscillator is incapable of warmth isn't it? Or am I missing something? (not being sarcastic)

Re: Korg Monotribe ?

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:28 pm
by Nannerfan
Funny with the other thread.. where all the mods were being assholes and flexing their business knowledge... then this thing comes out.

I think some people deserve an apology.

Re: Korg Monotribe ?

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:34 pm
by blackdiscoball
Im just glad it has batteries. I think portability is one of the greatest things about the Monotron and so im glad I wont be tethered to a wall. Im excited. If Korg stopped here I'd be happy but I hope (like I mentioned earlier) that by buying this it will show korg that people are interested in this sort of technology. Hopefully this will A) educate the buying public who don't already know how cool analog synths as oppose to harder to program modern digital synths, and B) Korg can build up some new technology that might be cheaper to produce while still having everything we love about analog synths. If some new engineers start looking at synth technology they might be able to make some analog synths with new parts, digital controls, digital tuning etc for cheaper then what past companies have. While DSI, Moog and the like might not be able to make a cheaper analog synth, I would think that if the chance for financial success was there, korg would have a lot more R&D money to spend on figuring out new ways to make electronic instruments.

Re: Korg Monotribe ?

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:40 pm
by theglyph
Automatic Gainsay wrote:Analog oscillator + automatic digital tuning = DCO
Not necessarily! The Moog LP has Auto-Tune and VCOs (i.e. a CV summer and expo circuit).

Re: Korg Monotribe ?

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:44 pm
by StepLogik
Automatic Gainsay wrote: Analog oscillator + automatic digital tuning = DCO
well, the debate rages on but this isn't completely true! if the CPU clocks the osc, then I would say it is definitely true. but it could be a more "pure" VCO circuit like what is in the current monotron but the CPU constantly adjusts the incoming voltage so as its always possible to get the desired pitch. by continuously sampling the frequency output of the VCO and comparing it to the expected value, the CPU can offset the voltage to compensate (to greatly simplify a rather complex process).

Re: Korg Monotribe ?

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:50 pm
by Nannerfan
DCO vs VCO never made sense to me. Who gives a s**t..

When a synth sounds bad.. I doubt it's because of the OSC and more about the VCF and ENV's.

Re: Korg Monotribe ?

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:02 pm
by smoothcriminal
What I take away from the feature list -

-The sequencer really only plays one 8-step pattern, but you can manipulate the way that pattern loops and enter rhythms off-time. It might be possible to do unquantized 16th notes within the 8 steps using Flux.

-Audio rate OSC and Filter FM from the LFO!

-Drums will need to be circuit bent to be truly useful, hopefully the circuit board is labeled like the monotron

-still no word on how the Line In interacts with the rest of the hardware

why does the price have to leak last?

My 2 cents about VCOs vs DCOs, I've never owned a DCO synth but isn't the general consensus that with a DCO each waveform will start at the same point in the cycle if it's played at the same time, therefore VCO pads have more movement because the waveforms of each note all start at random points in the cycle and are phasing against each other? I'm not too worried about that effect on a 1-osc monosynth, if it is even DCO-based.

Re: Korg Monotribe ?

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:04 pm
by Automatic Gainsay
RD9 wrote:
Automatic Gainsay wrote:Analog oscillator + automatic digital tuning = DCO
Not sure about you guys, but I wouldn't consider osc drift to be a major "warmth" factor. To me warmth is more about the harmonic saturation and general non-harshness of an instrument. I suppose imprecision can be perceived as a warming factor but I would argue that a lot of old instruments we all consider "warm" dont really exhibit perceivable drift (most of the time). It's a slight red herring to say that a stable oscillator is incapable of warmth isn't it? Or am I missing something? (not being sarcastic)
This is NOT a DCO vs. VCO argument, by the way. Both types are usable, both are nice, blah blah blah. I'm merely addressing the fact that a constantly regulated VCO is a DCO.

I stray from using the word "drift," as it can be used to describe a variety of tuning-related occurrences.
What can't be argued with is that there is a difference in sound between a VCO and a DCO, and one of the factors of that difference is that in a VCO there isn't a circuit forcing it into perfect pitch output at all times. With all the subjective bullshit aside (Yes, DCOs can sound good, yes, someone's a valid musician if they use a DCO synth, whatever on and on etc.), an oscillator which isn't forced into tune sounds more natural and organic than one that is... and that's among the factors (like saturation) that lead to VCOs being desirable, for some, over DCOs.
It is a bit of a red herring to use the term "stable" in regard to pitch, as VCOs can (and hopefully should) be stable, too... they're just not perfect in their pitch output... just like a voice, or a string, or etc.
I'm sure people have a variety of reasons, but the richness of chance that is tuning/saturation/etc. in VCOs is precisely why people want them... and as such, it's sort of silly to advertise them in your product if they're actually constantly regulated in regard to their pitch.
Having an "auto tune" function which tunes your oscillator is fine, but having something strong-arm it into tune at any given moment is essentially the point of DCOs... and that's what a DCO is.

StepLogik wrote:
Automatic Gainsay wrote: Analog oscillator + automatic digital tuning = DCO
well, the debate rages on but this isn't completely true! if the CPU clocks the osc, then I would say it is definitely true.
Well, it's hard to tell from the ad-speak if this is what they're saying, but that's what I came away with. If this (or an outcome that sounds like this) isn't the case, I'll rescind my statement!
StepLogik wrote:but it could be a more "pure" VCO circuit like what is in the current monotron but the CPU constantly adjusts the incoming voltage so as its always possible to get the desired pitch. by continuously sampling the frequency output of the VCO and comparing it to the expected value, the CPU can offset the voltage to compensate (to greatly simplify a rather complex process).
Well, I guess there is no limit to the ways that an oscillator can be kept in tune... and if the process you describe isn't one where the pitch is rigidly held to precise pitch, then I guess my complaint would have less validity. Let's hope.
: )

Re: Korg Monotribe ?

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:09 pm
by mute
Automatic Gainsay wrote:
AutomaticGainsay wrote:
Syn303 wrote:Auto-Tuning Analog
The Monotribe's auto-tuning circuitry provides stable chromatic playability, and will not go out of tune.
Damn, I was hoping for some "analog warmth."
Analog oscillator + automatic digital tuning = DCO
Not only do they specifically state VCO, they also nowhere mention that the oscillator is controlled digitally. Matter fact, they dont even mention digital at all. Adjusting the voltage automatically (if thats what it does) would be cheaper and the difference between that and DCO is well beyond apples and oranges. Further more, I doubt there's even much of a cpu on there in the first place, theres no patch storage, tempo is likely clock controlled, etc. I'd go as far as saying you will still incur 'drift' as the adjustments are sure to be subtle but constant never the less and not very fast. Regardless the situation, who cares, it'll still sound nice and it's got the MS filter.
This is NOT a DCO vs. VCO argument, by the way. Both types are usable, both are nice, blah blah blah. I'm merely addressing the fact that a constantly regulated VCO is a DCO.

But that would be wrong. Voltage controlled is voltage controlled. You can't get any more simpler than that. The Voltage could be regulated digitally, but it's still a VCO. DCO's are not voltage controlled at all. Early ones were BBD's later ones were CPU controlled, etc. No voltage in sight. You can't just go redefining what the acronyms clearly stand for. Relax your hat. It was lame to bring even start the conversation at this point really...

Anyways, who cares. It was lame to bring it up anyways. I generally agree with you, but this time you're assuming way to much while at the same time trying to define simple terms. Just wait until people get it and crack it open I say.

Re: Korg Monotribe ?

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:07 pm
by Sir Ruff
Nannerfan wrote:DCO vs VCO never made sense to me. Who gives a s**t..
spoken like someone who's probably never actually compared the two... :roll:
Automatic Gainsay wrote: Having an "auto tune" function which tunes your oscillator is fine, but having something strong-arm it into tune at any given moment is essentially the point of DCOs... and that's what a DCO is.
right - that whole "perfect tuning" thing and "VCO" kind of struck me as oxymoronic - "hey! we combined analog "warmth", with modern tuning technology!" :idea: (Cos we apparently still live in the 80s and live in constant fear of our fusion set being ruined by ever-so-slightly out of tune oscillators! :roll:)

But alas, this is Korg -acting as any big company would- using a plethora of "hip" lingo to appeal to as many potential buyers as possible.

EDIT: just adding my 2c - I'm interested but also confused by this thing. the analog percussion is a great idea, but frankly, unless it's let to "breath" a little, I imagine these will sound as sterile as samples. I also don't get the 8-step thing-I guess it reduces costs, but sure doesn't offer a lot of breadth as far as pattern variability. all being said, if they sound good and are cheap, I could imagine getting one for a larf. this and another drum machine would be fun.

Re: Korg Monotribe ?

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:10 pm
by blackdiscoball
Can I also say thank goodness for a 1/4 input? That 1/8 input on the monotron has been a constant pain in my butt. I hope thats a simple old mono 1/4 input and be done with the stereo c**p.

Re: Korg Monotribe ?

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:12 pm
by smoothcriminal
I think it's a 1/4" output Disco, and still 1/8 input. I think the input is meant for the Monotron's 1/8" output. Although personally I'd do it the opposite way, so I could sweep the entire Monotribe output with the Monotron filter and hear it through the internal speaker.

Re: Korg Monotribe ?

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:31 pm
by Nannerfan
Sir Ruff wrote:
Nannerfan wrote:DCO vs VCO never made sense to me. Who gives a s**t..
spoken like someone who's probably never actually compared the two... :roll:
I don't want to stand around A/B'ing a bunch of synths over moot points. All I know is that VCO synths are the only ones that have given me trouble in live situations when the power is shitty.

I just care if the synth sounds good or not. Analog, digital, sampler, etc.. I've only used one VCO synth I didn't like. It was the Oberheim Expander.

Re: Korg Monotribe ?

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:35 pm
by Nannerfan
Sir Ruff wrote:I also don't get the 8-step thing-I guess it reduces costs, but sure doesn't offer a lot of breadth as far as pattern variability.
The sync in solves that.. . at least for me it does.