Why so subtractive?

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GuyaGuy
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Re: Why so subtractive?

Post by GuyaGuy » Mon May 23, 2011 3:04 am

Serious internet is serious.

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Re: Why so subtractive?

Post by Sir Nose » Mon May 23, 2011 3:27 am

Who sounds stupid?
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Re: Why so subtractive?

Post by tekkentool » Mon May 23, 2011 3:45 am

Primal Drive wrote:
Automatic Gainsay wrote:Part of the reason that "subtractive (a term many of you know I despise because of its inaccuracy)" synthesis is popular is that the human voice is subtractive.
Oh for f**k's sakes, take a basic course in electronics. I have a good laugh at most of your posts, but this one almost makes me feel embarrassed for you.

And to save what little face you have left (despite your comic avatar) at least have the balls to give credit to those whose info you've blatantly ripped off and splattered on this forum as if you actually understood what the f**k you're talking about.

You're just a freaking mook that's owned a few synths, nothing more. At least admit it, if nothing else.

Damn! I thought VSE was better than this.
Oh my god I love you.

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Re: Why so subtractive?

Post by Automatic Gainsay » Mon May 23, 2011 3:50 am

Primal Drive wrote:
Automatic Gainsay wrote:Part of the reason that "subtractive (a term many of you know I despise because of its inaccuracy)" synthesis is popular is that the human voice is subtractive.
Oh for f**k's sakes, take a basic course in electronics. I have a good laugh at most of your posts, but this one almost makes me feel embarrassed for you.

And to save what little face you have left (despite your comic avatar) at least have the balls to give credit to those whose info you've blatantly ripped off and splattered on this forum as if you actually understood what the f**k you're talking about.

You're just a freaking mook that's owned a few synths, nothing more. At least admit it, if nothing else.

Damn! I thought VSE was better than this.
Uh oh. That's not a very nice post. Exactly which part of what I said has inspired such a response?


P.S. Dear VSE, I'm sorry I have ruined your image in the oh-so-important eyes of Primal Drive. I know it was really your only intent to impress him. Now I've ruined that. I feel terrible. Is there anything I can do to make it up to you?
‎"I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." -Charles Babbage
"Unity and Mediocrity are forever in bed together." -Zane W.
http://www.youtube.com/automaticgainsay

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Re: Why so subtractive?

Post by tekkentool » Mon May 23, 2011 5:16 am

See that's what I like about the post so much, it's pure concentrated drama with little to no motivation. I've already posted this recently but I must again.
Image

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Re: Why so subtractive?

Post by hyphen nation » Mon May 23, 2011 5:17 am

Primal Drive wrote:
Automatic Gainsay wrote:Part of the reason that "subtractive (a term many of you know I despise because of its inaccuracy)" synthesis is popular is that the human voice is subtractive.
Oh for f**k's sakes, take a basic course in electronics. I have a good laugh at most of your posts, but this one almost makes me feel embarrassed for you.

And to save what little face you have left (despite your comic avatar) at least have the balls to give credit to those whose info you've blatantly ripped off and splattered on this forum as if you actually understood what the f**k you're talking about.

You're just a freaking mook that's owned a few synths, nothing more. At least admit it, if nothing else.

Damn! I thought VSE was better than this.
And you've offered what of value to this forum?

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Re: Why so subtractive?

Post by polardark » Mon May 23, 2011 6:01 am

When I'm making patches i use more than just subtractive, even if the filter has a big part in it. Ring modulation, FM, oscillator sync and PWM are used a lot, not just an oscillator and a filter.

I think that it's disappointing that we don't have more tools in our standard synthesizer arsenal though. It feels like there's a conservatism that limits the number of synthesis methods that are used in synths - not just because of them being hard to implement. Once you start to fiddle with audio range sample and hold for instance, you can get very expressive results - but good luck finding a synth with that feature, or a synth that implements it as a controllable synthesis method (rather than as an effect). Advanced FM is another thing that's actually pretty capable and very cheap to implement in digital hardware but which is still not used as much as one would think.

No matter what synthesis method we employ, I think it's desirable to have a filter or two somewhere in the audio chain anyway.

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Re: Why so subtractive?

Post by Stab Frenzy » Mon May 23, 2011 11:01 am

polardark wrote:When I'm making patches i use more than just subtractive, even if the filter has a big part in it. Ring modulation, FM, oscillator sync and PWM are used a lot, not just an oscillator and a filter.

I think that it's disappointing that we don't have more tools in our standard synthesizer arsenal though. It feels like there's a conservatism that limits the number of synthesis methods that are used in synths - not just because of them being hard to implement. Once you start to fiddle with audio range sample and hold for instance, you can get very expressive results - but good luck finding a synth with that feature, or a synth that implements it as a controllable synthesis method (rather than as an effect). Advanced FM is another thing that's actually pretty capable and very cheap to implement in digital hardware but which is still not used as much as one would think.

No matter what synthesis method we employ, I think it's desirable to have a filter or two somewhere in the audio chain anyway.
Totally agree with you, but the (hardware at least) synth buying public seems to not be into it for whatever reason, so things like the Nord mod G2 get discontinued. Perhaps the issue is the people who appreciate these things are able to do a lot of complicated stuff in software, and then run through modular filters and VCAs then back to software for effects? I'm pretty happy working that way, although I do like my G2 as well.

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Re: Why so subtractive?

Post by gridsleep » Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:49 pm

If you don't want subtractive, or, at least, not so much nor a majority of subtractive, there are the following:

Hartmann Neuron
Kurzweil 150
Kawai K5 & K5m
Kawai K5000s/w/r
Technics SX-WSA1 and WSA1R
Casio FZ-1, FZ-10m and FZ-20m
Oxford OSCar and GForce ImpOSCar
Seiko DS-250 and DS-310
Native Instruments Razor

Any others? Probably some other software synths. If anyone has particulars that aren't listed here, I'd like to know about them. I don't think the presence of filters should disavow a synthesizer of its additive or analog modeling intent. No matter what anybody buys, they're hoping to get Moog or ARP sounds. The Moog and ARP and Buchla brought new sounds into the world via their unique architecture. The ones listed here all have their own unique architecture and sound. If they make synthesis more difficult, well, everything new has a learning curve. It just depends on the dedication of the user. Billions use computers, but only a few million write software. Billions read, but how many write? If you want a new sound, you have to step outside the box. If you want to be popular, you wear the same colors as everyone else so they'll throw money at you. The majority of synthesizers let musicians excel within everyone's comfort zone. I prefer to skirt around the edges of the bell. That's where the most interesting sounds are heard.
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Re: Why so subtractive?

Post by clubbedtodeath » Sat Nov 19, 2011 6:47 pm

Automatic Gainsay wrote:P.S. Dear VSE ... Is there anything I can do to make it up to you?
Oh I don't know AG, you stepped way over the line there.

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Re: Why so subtractive?

Post by Automatic Gainsay » Sat Nov 19, 2011 6:56 pm

clubbedtodeath wrote:
Automatic Gainsay wrote:P.S. Dear VSE ... Is there anything I can do to make it up to you?
Oh I don't know AG, you stepped way over the line there.
Thanks, though, guys. Despite my offense, you've all been kind enough to keep the fact that I'm just a freaking mook under your hats so that my kid doesn't find out.
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Re: Why so subtractive?

Post by Sir Nose » Sat Nov 19, 2011 7:19 pm

Automatic Gainsay wrote:
clubbedtodeath wrote:
Automatic Gainsay wrote:P.S. Dear VSE ... Is there anything I can do to make it up to you?
Oh I don't know AG, you stepped way over the line there.
Thanks, though, guys. Despite my offense, you've all been kind enough to keep the fact that I'm just a freaking mook under your hats so that my kid doesn't find out.
Nah.
You want them to find out. That way, they don't become a mook themself. :P
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all that is good is nasty

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Re: Why so subtractive?

Post by gridsleep » Sat Nov 19, 2011 10:10 pm

clubbedtodeath wrote:
Automatic Gainsay wrote:P.S. Dear VSE ... Is there anything I can do to make it up to you?
Oh I don't know AG, you stepped way over the line there.
I hope you're being ironic. If you were serious, then you resent AG for his mildly sarcastic response to PD's character assassination. I only know AG from his videos, and he seems a mature and highly erudite player with a wealth of technical knowledge. So, I'll just go on assuming you're being ironic, since I prefer to believe VSE has an extreme minority of orifici gluteus maximi.
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Re: Why so subtractive?

Post by ninja6485 » Sun Nov 20, 2011 1:05 am

gridsleep wrote: I only know AG from his videos, and he seems a mature and highly erudite player with a wealth of technical knowledge.
Same. But you've got to remember:they're videos! he's not neccisarily a "player" in real life, they just hire all those guys for the sake of the shot. I'm still amazed at how flexible he's become, and how legibly he's able to write on his own butt.
This looks like a psychotropic reaction. No wonder it's so popular...

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Re: Why so subtractive?

Post by Zamise » Sun Nov 20, 2011 6:51 am

Phonetically it is pronounced mow-k. They said sweep the floor and you thought they said sweep the filter and signed up.

:P
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