Matrix 6/1000 - Soft Mod Glitches - how bad is it really?

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MitchXI
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Matrix 6/1000 - Soft Mod Glitches - how bad is it really?

Post by MitchXI » Sat Jul 30, 2011 4:51 am

Howdy,

To those who have owned and/or patched anything from the Oberheim Matrix 6/r/1000 line, how much does the modulation glitching impede getting music out of the machine?

I've heard reports of the slow CPU being overloaded by complex patches. Of course, the envelopes are supposedly slow to begin with. Apparently, you start to loose bits of your modulation if you're a little too heavy on the software patching.

At what point does this start to happen with increasing patch complexity? Is it completely debilitating or does it have some of it's own goofy character?

I'm considering picking up one of these for slow patches, etc. I've read through the user manual, the feature-set is enough to justify several times over.

I am curious about how flaky the thing gets, though.

Thanks

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Re: Matrix 6/1000 - Soft Mod Glitches - how bad is it really

Post by Music Maven » Sat Jul 30, 2011 11:44 am

I am a Matrix-1000 owner. I have never noticed that the modulation routings become "flakey" or somehow unresponsive the more routings that are applied.

As I'm sure you know, the Matrix-1000 includes a number of "hard-wired" mod-routings along with a more general purpose 10-slot mod matrix. It's quite powerful and very flexible. In fact, it's the best feature of the synth.

What does slow the synth WAY down is trying to send it syx-ex messages while playing back notes. So don't think that you will be able to automate parameters via sys-ex. The good news is that you can easily assign a controller (e.g., the mod wheel) to pretty much whatever parameter you want to control and then transmit normal control change messages.

If the sys-ex wasn't so sluggish, I would say that the Matrix-1000 is actually a better, more powerful option than something like the Dave Smith Tetra. (I am also a Prophet '08 rack owner so I can directly compare the two.) The Matrix is a bit duller-sounding than the DSI stuff. But a little EQ goes a long way.

It goes without saying that you are going to need a software editor to program the Matrix-1000. There aren't a lot of options on the Mac if that's the platform you use. So be aware of that.

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Re: Matrix 6/1000 - Soft Mod Glitches - how bad is it really

Post by clubbedtodeath » Sat Jul 30, 2011 1:28 pm

Music Maven wrote:The Matrix is a bit duller-sounding than the DSI stuff. But a little EQ goes a long way.
The words you're looking for are warm and buttery. ;) The Matrix 6 is an excellent pad machine, when used with a touch of reverb and a smidgen of chorus:


Brass pad on Matrix 6 (mp3)

I've never had the Matrix 6 wig out due to complex patches. Flakey is not a word I'd use to describe it. Big, heavy.. yes - but not flakey. It's not crashed once.
It goes without saying that you are going to need a software editor to program the Matrix-1000. There aren't a lot of options on the Mac if that's the platform you use. So be aware of that.
For the Matrix 6, I'd also recommend a software editor. Whilst you can edit through the front panel (I've done it, ie. for the brass pad patch above), it's long-winded and involves much pressing of buttons.

Finally, for the DSI stuff sounding brighter, I'd completely agree with that. The two actually compliment each other: which is why I have an Evolver and a Matrix 6.

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Re: Matrix 6/1000 - Soft Mod Glitches - how bad is it really

Post by MitchXI » Sat Jul 30, 2011 2:26 pm

Music Maven wrote:I am a Matrix-1000 owner. I have never noticed that the modulation routings become "flakey" or somehow unresponsive the more routings that are applied.
Ah. This is good news. I've read some funny reports, must have been someone who didn't know what they were doing.
Music Maven wrote:What does slow the synth WAY down is trying to send it syx-ex messages while playing back notes. So don't think that you will be able to automate parameters via sys-ex. The good news is that you can easily assign a controller (e.g., the mod wheel) to pretty much whatever parameter you want to control and then transmit normal control change messages.
Yes, I had assumed this might be the case. I'm always a little baffled by people who mess about with sysex when it's possible to get the job done with some controller action.
clubbedtodeath wrote:The words you're looking for are warm and buttery. ;) The Matrix 6 is an excellent pad machine, when used with a touch of reverb and a smidgen of chorus:
I see. That is one thing that draws to this series. People badmouth the envelopes constantly, but the underlying tone is really very nice.

And yeah, I understand there will be some leg-work to get a good editor built into my puredata midi control center.


I guess the only question I have left at this point is the practical difference between the 6r and the 1000. I understand the tuning tables are a little different. Is one or the other more reliable in a physical sense? Surely the 6r is easier to repair, being a bit roomier in there?

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Re: Matrix 6/1000 - Soft Mod Glitches - how bad is it really

Post by nathanscribe » Sat Jul 30, 2011 4:08 pm

clubbedtodeath wrote:The Matrix 6 is an excellent pad machine, when used with a touch of reverb and a smidgen of chorus:


Brass pad on Matrix 6 (mp3)

Mmmm, lovely.

I only sold mine because I couldn't be arsed with all that button-pushing and don't like software editors. Sounded great, but I get more use out of less flexible things with better interfaces.

Don't be making me want another one... (pointy finger).

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Re: Matrix 6/1000 - Soft Mod Glitches - how bad is it really

Post by clubbedtodeath » Sat Jul 30, 2011 4:33 pm

nathanscribe wrote:Mmmm, lovely.

I only sold mine because I couldn't be arsed with all that button-pushing and don't like software editors. Sounded great, but I get more use out of less flexible things with better interfaces.

Don't be making me want another one... (pointy finger).
:D

Apologies, Herr Scribe. I haven't sold mine, because I can program a very similar patch into a Nord, Novation, or Waldorf and it doesn't sound half as decent. I'd only replace it with an OB-X, if I could.

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Re: Matrix 6/1000 - Soft Mod Glitches - how bad is it really

Post by loungedumore » Sun Jul 31, 2011 6:53 pm

Ob matrix series editor for OSX ( not sure about 10.7 )

http://fly.hiwaay.net/~cornutt/Music/We ... _home.html
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Re: Matrix 6/1000 - Soft Mod Glitches - how bad is it really

Post by aredj » Mon Aug 01, 2011 3:23 pm

Music Maven wrote:What does slow the synth WAY down is trying to send it syx-ex messages while playing back notes. So don't think that you will be able to automate parameters via sys-ex. The good news is that you can easily assign a controller (e.g., the mod wheel) to pretty much whatever parameter you want to control and then transmit normal control change messages.

Yes, I had assumed this might be the case. I'm always a little baffled by people who mess about with sysex when it's possible to get the job done with some controller action.
For external editing - only sysex is possible... Heres my vid of that in action -

There are a few parameters that would lag when you change them (note would hold until the matrix catches up, it happens a couple times in the video, which I make obvious by pointing...) eg depth, lfo depth were the worst of them... but I've since repaired that behavior by setting a larger send buffer on the drehbank for those problematic parameters (it's a rare setting for a midi controller... it works great)

Ultimately, this machine is not made for live tweaking... but I do love that I can edit it as easily as I can... makes it way more worth it..


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Re: Matrix 6/1000 - Soft Mod Glitches - how bad is it really

Post by clubbedtodeath » Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:04 pm

aredj wrote:There are a few parameters that would lag when you change them (note would hold until the matrix catches up, it happens a couple times in the video, which I make obvious by pointing...) eg depth, lfo depth were the worst of them... but I've since repaired that behavior by setting a larger send buffer on the drehbank for those problematic parameters (it's a rare setting for a midi controller... it works great)
Many, many thanks for that video, Aredj. Very interesting. I had no idea the Matrix 6/1000 could be that tweakable live.

Needless to say, I am now on the lookout for a Doepfer Drehbank for my Matrix 6! :mrgreen:

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Re: Matrix 6/1000 - Soft Mod Glitches - how bad is it really

Post by aredj » Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:28 pm

Yeah of course! That vid has inspired several drehbank aqusitions... they're a bit rare.. and mildly expensive.

But... they are suuuuuper handy... they do ALL things midi related me thinks. I used it for all kinds o stuff before... nowadays its pretty much hardwired to the matrix.

Ps.. you can also pull this off with a bcr2000.

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Re: Matrix 6/1000 - Soft Mod Glitches - how bad is it really

Post by clubbedtodeath » Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:29 am

aredj wrote:But... they are suuuuuper handy... they do ALL things midi related me thinks. I used it for all kinds o stuff before... nowadays its pretty much hardwired to the matrix.

Ps.. you can also pull this off with a bcr2000.
Ah-ha. BCR2000s costs beans too, so that might be worth a look.

Actually, I have an Oxygen8 with a few knobs here, I might give that a try and see how it works out.

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Re: Matrix 6/1000 - Soft Mod Glitches - how bad is it really

Post by aredj » Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:05 am

The bcr is a little trickier to program the sysex, but can be done...
I doubt the oxygen does sysex... I don't think *any* maudio product does....

Anyway... later tonight when I get home... I'm gonna max the mod matrix and assign everything I can to the mod wheel and see what happens. Never done that.... or ever had an issue or bugs. Curious now tho... i

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Re: Matrix 6/1000 - Soft Mod Glitches - how bad is it really

Post by Ashe37 » Tue Aug 02, 2011 7:34 am

I'm gonna try to use my Remote Zero for the same kinda thing... (once i recap my 6r's power supply)

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Re: Matrix 6/1000 - Soft Mod Glitches - how bad is it really

Post by aredj » Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:57 pm

Yeah, so I tried to max out the Matrix just now... assigned everything I could to the modwheel and s**t like that, and just wailed on it. Filter, res, FM, egtimes, lfo rates, pitch (sync on) etc... Behaves like it should. Pretty cool actually. Excuse the dopey sequence... :p


The next thing my brain tells me, is to do 2 mod-maxed patches in split mode. Im sure it'll be fine. Good lil' synth.

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Re: Matrix 6/1000 - Soft Mod Glitches - how bad is it really

Post by cornutt » Wed Aug 03, 2011 3:11 am

loungedumore wrote:Ob matrix series editor for OSX ( not sure about 10.7 )

http://fly.hiwaay.net/~cornutt/Music/We ... _home.html
That's me... I have not yet tried it with 10.7. If anyone does try, let me know.
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