I enjoy the challenge of simplicity.....

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Re: I enjoy the challenge of simplicity.....

Post by D-Collector » Sun Aug 21, 2011 1:34 pm

I have downscaled to only the Roland S-330, D-50, JV-880 and Yamaha DX7! I sequence with the S-330 and record everything with a Zoom R16, works very well for me. Take a peek in the listening lounge for a taste.

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Re: I enjoy the challenge of simplicity.....

Post by cartesia » Sun Aug 21, 2011 1:36 pm

pfft, quality...

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Re: I enjoy the challenge of simplicity.....

Post by Automatic Gainsay » Sun Aug 21, 2011 3:18 pm

Stab Frenzy wrote:
Automatic Gainsay wrote:Almost invariably, when synth users use the term "minimalist," they mean simple and sparse.
It's possible to use 4 or 5 synths "simply." The point that I was making was that Minimalism is about an economy of change, not an economy of synths or content. What's more, Minimalism can be achieved wholly without synths. It has nothing to do with instrumentation.
You're confusing minimalist with minimal, as in minimal techno, minimal wave etc. Different words, different things.
I'm not confusing the two, users who desire to refer to various "minimal" movements very frequently use terms like "minimalist," and "minimalism."
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Re: I enjoy the challenge of simplicity.....

Post by Sir Nose » Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:02 pm

I've never heard or read the terms minimalist of minimalism used in reference to modern electronic music. Just minimal. Minimalism and minimal techno is similar to classical and classic rock; rarely is the meaning misunderstood.

They are also terms that have a general meaning and their specific usage can be reassigned. It's not like they are new words that are made up and assigned a meaning.
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Re: I enjoy the challenge of simplicity.....

Post by Stab Frenzy » Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:35 pm

Sir Nose wrote:I've never heard or read the terms minimalist of minimalism used in reference to modern electronic music. Just minimal. Minimalism and minimal techno is similar to classical and classic rock; rarely is the meaning misunderstood.

They are also terms that have a general meaning and their specific usage can be reassigned. It's not like they are new words that are made up and assigned a meaning.
+1

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Re: I enjoy the challenge of simplicity.....

Post by aredj » Sun Aug 21, 2011 7:34 pm

I had a very minimalistic poo this morning. I should buy another synth.

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Re: I enjoy the challenge of simplicity.....

Post by Plumpudding » Sun Aug 21, 2011 8:12 pm

aredj wrote:I had a very minimalistic poo this morning. I should buy another synth.
In what way was it minimalistic? Was it a small poo? Was the smell faint? Not very noticable at all? Did you at all notice it before it was too late?
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Re: I enjoy the challenge of simplicity.....

Post by Automatic Gainsay » Sun Aug 21, 2011 8:46 pm

Stab Frenzy wrote:
Sir Nose wrote:I've never heard or read the terms minimalist of minimalism used in reference to modern electronic music. Just minimal. Minimalism and minimal techno is similar to classical and classic rock; rarely is the meaning misunderstood.

They are also terms that have a general meaning and their specific usage can be reassigned. It's not like they are new words that are made up and assigned a meaning.
+1
I don't mean to be rude, but are either of you retarded? The whole reason the "Minimalism" issue arose was because people used the term "minimalism" and "minimalistic" in THIS VERY THREAD. Including once by YOU, Stab Frenzy.

Whether that problem is of any importance whatsoever is debatable, but don't pretend like the notion is unimaginable in the midst of a thread where instances can be easily indicated.

Oh, and as for word meaning being reassigned: if you're offended I called you two retarded, you should know that I've reassigned the meaning of that word to something somewhat less offensive.
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Re: I enjoy the challenge of simplicity.....

Post by Phollop Willing PA » Sun Aug 21, 2011 9:40 pm

I thought this thread was supposed to be about a 'minimal' set up for 'simplicity' sake, thus creating nice sounds with a simple set up.

It turned to reflect 'musical' terms.

Now a discussion of music with misappropriated terms and don't get me started on those who tag their music 'experimental' without a thought or a nod to people like Subnotnik, Cage, Eno or other from the early to later part of the 20th century. What's the experiment maestro?

Answer to the original query would be OP-1 or something like a workstation and get a Theremin. (Everyone should have one).
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Re: I enjoy the challenge of simplicity.....

Post by Yoozer » Sun Aug 21, 2011 10:23 pm

Automatic Gainsay wrote: Almost invariably, when synth users use the term "minimalist," they mean simple and sparse.
It's possible to use 4 or 5 synths "simply." The point that I was making was that Minimalism is about an economy of change, not an economy of synths or content. What's more, Minimalism can be achieved wholly without synths. It has nothing to do with instrumentation.
I did not misunderstand your point! :)

You did not agree with using the term minimalism for gear (when it applies to music); I suggested an alternative term that would be fitting for gear, not music. Furthermore, I mentioned that I didn't agree with the term "simplicity" as it applied to gear - but that wasn't meant to connect back to minimalism (music) in any way; it was just to show that if you'd be "ascetic" (to avoid further misunderstanding I'll just use this term) with only a few synthesizers it'd still not have to be simple (as in music, or even as in terms of setup)

So yeah, this is a lot of textual wankery about "well let me tell you about what I think words mean", but hey, that's like, what, 90% of the forum? :D Anyway.

To get back to the original post: I think less is more is too easily bandied around. I can't say I agree with it either - because for equipment it's not about "less" in terms of count or even internal complexity; it's about finding the level where you can still focus, still juggle everything mentally. Where it gets ugly is when people force their own level at others:

"well, you have over a dozen synths, that means..."

* you're a collector, you can't play
* you have no talent so you buy more gear to compensate
* your music probably sounds like s**t, nothing good can come of more than 4 synths
* your music probably sounds like s**t because you can't possibly find the time to figure everything out deeply
* your music probably sounds like s**t because I made the best stuff when I only had 2 synths and a drum machine, now I've got everything I ever wanted and I can't recapture the magic anymore so you can't either, completely disregard me getting married and kids and working 40 hours per week and worrying about mortgages and being 10 years older than in those halcyon days

Personally I think it's because I equate free room in the studio with free room in mind - a blank canvas filled with possibilities, barren ground waiting to be cultivated, an empty sky to perform acrobatics in. It doesn't matter how complex or simple the synth occupying the space is; it's occuyping the physical space that counts.

It doesn't help that all of it is located at the attic where all kinds of c**p is just dumped because it doesn't fit anywhere else in the house :(.
"Part of an instrument is what it can do, and part of it is what you do to it" - Suzanne Ciani, 197x.

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Re: I enjoy the challenge of simplicity.....

Post by Sir Nose » Sun Aug 21, 2011 10:43 pm

Automatic Gainsay wrote:
I don't mean to be rude, but are either of you retarded? The whole reason the "Minimalism" issue arose was because people used the term "minimalism" and "minimalistic" in THIS VERY THREAD. Including once by YOU, Stab Frenzy.

Whether that problem is of any importance whatsoever is debatable, but don't pretend like the notion is unimaginable in the midst of a thread where instances can be easily indicated.

Oh, and as for word meaning being reassigned: if you're offended I called you two retarded, you should know that I've reassigned the meaning of that word to something somewhat less offensive.
The words miminalistic and minimalism were not used in this thread in reference to music. Until, you used the terms. They were used in reference to an amount gear used at one time. They were used with the less specific definition of minimal, meaning a small amount.
Also, I think we're both too old to resort to name calling and still look cool.
What if I was mentally challenged? I am sure the readers of our forum that are, don't appreciate you using such a hurtful term to try and make a silly point. Unless you meant short in height, but that would not make any sense in the context you used retarded.
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Re: I enjoy the challenge of simplicity.....

Post by Sexor » Sun Aug 21, 2011 11:33 pm

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Monkey business since 2007!

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Re: I enjoy the challenge of simplicity.....

Post by phesago » Sun Aug 21, 2011 11:48 pm

My ideal minimal set up...... :D

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Re: I enjoy the challenge of simplicity.....

Post by Automatic Gainsay » Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:01 am

Sir Nose wrote:The words miminalistic and minimalism were not used in this thread in reference to music. Until, you used the terms. They were used in reference to an amount gear used at one time. They were used with the less specific definition of minimal, meaning a small amount.
Okay, seriously?
Listen, "minimal" in regard to the term "Minimalism" is in reference to minimal change... a small amount of change. If you're going to go to that extreme to try to evade the point that was being made, you're still not escaping it. "Minimalism" is not a term which is unrelated to the term "minimal." If you use "minimal" in regard to music, anyone with any experience or education is going to at least think of "Minimalism," wherein "minimal" change occurs. Stop trying to defend a bunch of kids who embraced a term to describe their music which had already been embraced by established composers decades ago. It's unfortunate, but it happened. It's totally fine that "Minimal Techno" is called "Minimal Techno," but don't pretend that people who engage in that genre don't use the terms "minimalist" or "minimalistic." They do, and you can find it all over the f**k internet if you'd stop arguing minutiae and do a goddamned search. Why am I using expletives? Because your response implies that somehow I personally have generated this conflict as opposed to it existing irrespective of me, which it provably does.
Sir Nose wrote:Also, I think we're both too old to resort to name calling and still look cool.
Wait, are we no longer on VSE? Oh, I guess we are.
Sir Nose wrote:What if I was mentally challenged? I am sure the readers of our forum that are, don't appreciate you using such a hurtful term to try and make a silly point. Unless you meant short in height, but that would not make any sense in the context you used retarded.
Wait, it's a hurtful term? Well, apparently word meanings change... and that particular one now has a colloquial usage which doesn't refer to a disorder, but rather a reduced mental capacity in typical people. See? Isn't colloquial word-usage convenient in regard to meaning? WHEEEEEEE
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Re: I enjoy the challenge of simplicity.....

Post by tallowwaters » Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:24 am

Automatic Gainsay wrote:
cornutt wrote:Here's a curiosity question. I'm wondering whether there is a correlation between minimalist gear and minimalist music, or vice versa. If you have a stripped-down setup, do you tend to do minimalist music? If you have a large setup, do you tend to do big dense stuff?
I know everyone hates it when I point this out, but there is a very firmly established and recognized style of music called "Minimalism," and those who practice it are "Minimalists."
However, it has nothing to do with instrumentation, it has to do with repetition.
The internet electronic musicians started calling their music "minimal" when it was sparse in instrumentation, and while that's a totally valid usage of the word, it unknowingly refers to something completely unrelated which was established firmly before that usage existed.

Musicians stole the damned term from visual artists anyways, and Minimalist art was about a departure from overly pictorial work and simplification/economy of form and line (and any resulting repetition). Now last I checked, this thread was about minimalism (notice how it is not capitalized) as far as electronic instrumentation in the studio and any relation it has to music quality. (The usage of language does change over time, whether it be through mass misuse of a term or simply turn of phrase, it happens no matter how much some of us hate it. Taking that frustration out on members of a forum that likely get that point is a bit misguided when your real bane is laptop loving Nirs and beat whores.)

While I can appreciate your exceedingly pedantic point and your downright dogmatic view of nomenclature and terminology, let's make it a point not to derail a thread too much. Leaving out the name calling, even if it was meant in a light hearted fashion would be nice as well, especially since this is the internet. *politically correct mode, which I hate, but I am going to make an attempt at in the name of being an 'authority'. Let's not bandy about 'retard'. I know, I know, I grew up saying it and still do amongst friends, but I know a few people here that do have disabled children and while they are likely (and should) get the h**l over it, it would be nice not to put them in the position of having to do so, especially since the majority of us are reasonable adults that prefer legitimate discussions over what synths to buy or sell.
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