I enjoy the challenge of simplicity.....

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Re: I enjoy the challenge of simplicity.....

Post by D-Collector » Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:47 pm

tallowwaters wrote:Yes, in a literal sense, but you probably know the poster meant the modern interpretation of personal computer.
Yes, but I was unsure wether or not an old S-330 with sequencer software would fall in the typical computer classification. ;)

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Re: I enjoy the challenge of simplicity.....

Post by robotunes » Tue Aug 23, 2011 12:16 am

tomorrowstops wrote:I don't think anyone has answered my question regarding the use of computers.

How many of you here compose, or even record (gasp!) without a computer?

I would like to think my end-game would be a setup that I could escape the computer screen altogether with.

Thoughts?
i'm done with computers, except as sample storage. all my synths and samplers have knobs and sequencers/programmable arps. i record to a vs880ex and an old 4-track for texture.

that mouse always makes me feel like i'm playing a computer instead of an instrument, but i respect the computer musician. a laptop is a fast, efficient way to sculpt songs.

we're all wired to prefer different food, music and body types. why not different musicmaking techniques?

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Re: I enjoy the challenge of simplicity.....

Post by CS_TBL » Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:17 am

robotunes wrote:we're all wired to prefer different food, music and body types. why not different musicmaking techniques?
Why not indeed. Personally I couldn't give a rat's a*s about who uses what to produce music. The problem with some of the anti-computer crowd is that they tend to attribute everything that can hypothetically go wrong to the computer. You know: plugins sound cold and lifeless, a mouse is c**p, bad converters on a soundcard, booting takes ages, latency, they crash every minute, they all have viruses and they invite watching pr0n. And if you counter those by naming the vast processing power of a PC then in return you get stuff like "in the old days we didn't need all that, we just made good music with what we had, today's music sucks!".

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Re: I enjoy the challenge of simplicity.....

Post by tallowwaters » Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:32 pm

D-Collector wrote:
tallowwaters wrote:Yes, in a literal sense, but you probably know the poster meant the modern interpretation of personal computer.
Yes, but I was unsure wether or not an old S-330 with sequencer software would fall in the typical computer classification. ;)
It only counts as a computer if you hook a monitor to it. ;)
tekkentool wrote:
tomorrowstops wrote:I don't think anyone has answered my question regarding the use of computers.

How many of you here compose, or even record (gasp!) without a computer?

I would like to think my end-game would be a setup that I could escape the computer screen altogether with.

Thoughts?
I understand a lot of people have the "I'm in front of a computer screen all day anyway" mentality and I can see why you would want to escape computers in that case. But why else would you want to get rid of the most flexible production tool in the studio? The computer is the most useful synthesizer, sequencer and multitrack recorder ever made all rolled into one neat box. A computer-less studio is one you won't find me working in that's for sure. Whatever floats your boat I guess...
CS_TBL wrote:
robotunes wrote:we're all wired to prefer different food, music and body types. why not different musicmaking techniques?
Why not indeed. Personally I couldn't give a rat's a*s about who uses what to produce music. The problem with some of the anti-computer crowd is that they tend to attribute everything that can hypothetically go wrong to the computer. You know: plugins sound cold and lifeless, a mouse is c**p, bad converters on a soundcard, booting takes ages, latency, they crash every minute, they all have viruses and they invite watching pr0n. And if you counter those by naming the vast processing power of a PC then in return you get stuff like "in the old days we didn't need all that, we just made good music with what we had, today's music sucks!".

Yes, good old VSE memories! :lol:

Glad to see our resident software trolls making this into a computer vs the world debate.
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Re: I enjoy the challenge of simplicity.....

Post by tim gueguen » Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:59 pm

Of course to people who don't like electronic music it all sounds (your negative adjective here), no matter what type of gear is used. "That sounds like a bunch of machines! It's got no soul. Why don't those guys play real instruments?" Not to mention that a lot of those people think any sort of synth is a computer.
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Re: I enjoy the challenge of simplicity.....

Post by stephen » Tue Aug 23, 2011 7:19 pm

Even a laptop-only setup can be complicated, depends on what software you have. And whether you understand it.

But that would apply to hardware too I guess. No point buying a ton of synths to make up for not being able to get past the patch selectors.

Simplicity isn't necessarily lightweight, simplicity is a set up that lets you get on with the job of making some music without having to RTFM every 5 minutes.

So are we talking about setups that only have a couple of instruments, or are we discussing optimum workflow with an efficient selection of gear (aww OK then... and/or software)?

How do you define simplicity?
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Re: I enjoy the challenge of simplicity.....

Post by loungedumore » Tue Aug 23, 2011 7:25 pm

tim gueguen wrote: "That sounds like a bunch of machines! It's got no soul. Why don't those guys play real instruments?" Not to mention that a lot of those people think any sort of synth is a computer.
Yeah ,but those people smell bad from years of cheap weed and Patchouli oil or month old egg whites in their Mohawks so who cares what they think :roll:
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Re: I enjoy the challenge of simplicity.....

Post by tomorrowstops » Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:52 pm

tekkentool wrote:
I understand a lot of people have the "I'm in front of a computer screen all day anyway" mentality and I can see why you would want to escape computers in that case. But why else would you want to get rid of the most flexible production tool in the studio? The computer is the most useful synthesizer, sequencer and multitrack recorder ever made all rolled into one neat box. A computer-less studio is one you won't find me working in that's for sure. Whatever floats your boat I guess...
Sorry, I think I need to clarify - I'm not talking about ditching the computer. I'm mainly exploring the concept of separating the compositional aspect of my workflow from the recording aspect. Currently the two processes are joined together by the computer. I've been setup (physically and mentally) for a long time to be 'record' ready and am looking to change my focus to composition first, record later.

Naturally, I'm assuming that some people are already wired this way, which is whom I'm most curious in receiving insight from.

The computer will always be involved in my recording process, it's way too powerful of a tool to let go. I just want to eliminate the distraction of it from the writing process as much as I can.

For me, this may be as simple as introducing a small format analog console, allowing me to route all of my instruments, effects and monitors before they hit my computer interface. And, if sticking with what I've got for synths, adding a hardware sequencer (or two!) to the mix (I currently build sequences for the Voyager OS and P5 by 'hand' in Pro Tools).

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Re: I enjoy the challenge of simplicity.....

Post by tekkentool » Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:14 am

tallowwaters wrote: Glad to see our resident software trolls making this into a computer vs the world debate.
:thumbright:

I believe it's Fm8 vs the world ;)

Though I wasn't only spouting bullshit rhetoric. I actually would be genuinely interested in why with a task like recording instruments you would want to get rid of the computer. I understand if it's a particular style you want (cutting tapes musique concrete style, rough tape sounding album e.g Foo Fighters last thing) but I just want to know aside from that what makes the lack of computer attractive? I just want perspectives.

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Re: I enjoy the challenge of simplicity.....

Post by cartesia » Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:03 am

personally, computer screens require too much focus. I look at the screen, everything around me kinda fades into the background.. get sucked into the computer world..

It's much easier for me to concentrate when I'm not switching between computer-world and hardware-world.. something about continuous train of thought rather than switching back and forth..

Dedicated DAW controllers can go someway to changing that (most general midi controller layouts are too generic IMO), but at the end of the day, I still get sucked into the computer-dimension at various stages in the process..

I grew up around computers, so no I'm not some old luddite.. and I still spend most of my waking life in front of computers.. I just find that my mindset on computers, while very efficient, is somewhat over/hyper-focused on the technical/computer use.. its very kinda multi-threaded thought, but with music I really need an uninterrupted frame of mind to develop concise ideas..
Not a huge issue, but I also find reality a little more inspirational than the setting of a computer.. my room is filled with plants, paintings, big glass windows, cool lights at night.. No matter how long I spend searching for new Live skins or wallpapers, when I look at my computer screen its a bit dull.. That's just me though. I am really strongly emotionally/mood affected by my immediately perceived environment

*edit* another important factor for me (and I suspect more applicable to others)

computers provide unlimited options... tracks/plugins/effects/mixing/ultra-micro-editing.. this is the kind of thing that bogs me down.. I keep trying every possible combination if I'm not satisfied with something.. it's a huge time-sink and again, it takes me away from the creative mindset that the track was coming from.

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Re: I enjoy the challenge of simplicity.....

Post by tallowwaters » Wed Aug 24, 2011 5:03 pm

tekkentool wrote:
tallowwaters wrote: Glad to see our resident software trolls making this into a computer vs the world debate.
:thumbright:

I believe it's Fm8 vs the world ;)

Though I wasn't only spouting bullshit rhetoric. I actually would be genuinely interested in why with a task like recording instruments you would want to get rid of the computer. I understand if it's a particular style you want (cutting tapes musique concrete style, rough tape sounding album e.g Foo Fighters last thing) but I just want to know aside from that what makes the lack of computer attractive? I just want perspectives.

Fair enough. For recording, I like simplicity since I am in a band setting. On my D888, all I have to do is hit record and it records 8 tracks at once for as long as I would want to record. I didn't have to f**k with any settings to make it do that, never have to worry about updating or OS compatibility, or anything like that. Just hit record while I'm still playing.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a PC luddite or anything. If I could get a computer that didn't need a peripheral piece of hardware that was an absolute b***h to make work correctly 100% of the time when I wanted it to, and I could just leave it up and running all practice and it had a big red button I could hit to record, I would be all over it. I am aware I could take the time to spec a machine close to that, but it was just easier to buy something dedicated to the task. From there I can just dump the Wav files onto my XP SP3 machine and edit in the old version of Reaper. As such I can focus 90% of my efforts on *gasp* playing music (and the other 10% trying to make guitar not sound like s**t).
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Re: I enjoy the challenge of simplicity.....

Post by robotunes » Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:56 pm

tekkentool wrote:"what makes the lack of computer attractive?
for me, using a computer to make music is like eating ribs with a knife and fork.

with a self-contained keyboard or groovebox, i feel like i'm touching the music, getting sauce all over my fingers and lips. when i use a controller with a computer, it feels like i'm wearing gloves to eat ribs. close, but too sterile (not the sound, the musicmaking process).

it's not just computers. feel the same way when i use my rack gear, too. i feel removed from the music, as precious as that sounds.

got no hate toward those who make music with computers. in fact, i'm convinced the next generations will know no other way. i mean, there's a VSTi/editor for the korg emx, for goodness' sake! even after korg stripped a knobby VA down to its most immediate and barest essentials, it's still too foreign to some dudes' all-computer workflow.

i don't get it, but to each his own.

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Re: I enjoy the challenge of simplicity.....

Post by tomorrowstops » Wed Aug 24, 2011 11:17 pm

cartesia wrote:personally, computer screens require too much focus. I look at the screen, everything around me kinda fades into the background.. get sucked into the computer world..

It's much easier for me to concentrate when I'm not switching between computer-world and hardware-world.. something about continuous train of thought rather than switching back and forth..

Dedicated DAW controllers can go someway to changing that (most general midi controller layouts are too generic IMO), but at the end of the day, I still get sucked into the computer-dimension at various stages in the process..

I grew up around computers, so no I'm not some old luddite.. and I still spend most of my waking life in front of computers.. I just find that my mindset on computers, while very efficient, is somewhat over/hyper-focused on the technical/computer use.. its very kinda multi-threaded thought, but with music I really need an uninterrupted frame of mind to develop concise ideas..
Not a huge issue, but I also find reality a little more inspirational than the setting of a computer.. my room is filled with plants, paintings, big glass windows, cool lights at night.. No matter how long I spend searching for new Live skins or wallpapers, when I look at my computer screen its a bit dull.. That's just me though. I am really strongly emotionally/mood affected by my immediately perceived environment

*edit* another important factor for me (and I suspect more applicable to others)

computers provide unlimited options... tracks/plugins/effects/mixing/ultra-micro-editing.. this is the kind of thing that bogs me down.. I keep trying every possible combination if I'm not satisfied with something.. it's a huge time-sink and again, it takes me away from the creative mindset that the track was coming from.
EXACTLY what I'm talking about!

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Re: I enjoy the challenge of simplicity.....

Post by visceralvoids » Wed Aug 24, 2011 11:24 pm

tallowwaters wrote:On my D888, all I have to do is hit record and it records 8 tracks at once for as long as I would want to record. I didn't have to f**k with any settings to make it do that, never have to worry about updating or OS compatibility, or anything like that. Just hit record while I'm still playing.
+1

Once digital multitracks came out I never looked back. The best thing about the new ones are the USB compatibility which lets you dump wave files of jams to chop up and edit into a PC later so you can take all the horrid parts out and develop ideas off the good bits. (Personally) I like to spend as much time away from the PC as possible during music creation

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Re: I enjoy the challenge of simplicity.....

Post by Richard Gear » Thu Aug 25, 2011 3:17 am

I whish I could add a Polysix and a CS-30 to my setup but I really don't know where I could put them. The only thing I could add to my setup would be a few pedals, a tabletop synth (such as the Micromac), a Slim Phatty or an other rack synth such as the Xpander (if I had the money).

I like to have my gear around me, not in my wardrobe.

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