Analog, VA or..... the future?

Discussions about anything analog, digital, MIDI, synth technology, techniques, theories and more.
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Re: Analog, VA or..... the future?

Post by Stab Frenzy » Mon Aug 29, 2011 6:55 am

kerpan wrote:I don't want to be the j**k on the bus who's writing dubstep on headphones.
Can you see how this statement might cause people to think you're a bit of a d**k? Not saying that you are of course, just that the things you say are giving people that impression. :thumbleft:

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Re: Analog, VA or..... the future?

Post by kerpan » Mon Aug 29, 2011 9:11 pm

samuraipizzacat29 wrote:For instance, any vst, when sent through a decent pre-amp, analog vca, or analog filter sounds just dandy (much better than a Juno-106 IMHO).
I need to try that out. Just need to get my hands on a standalone or patchable filter. I still don't think anything will compare to the glitchy whimsy that is my battered 106. I've done that through a sexy preamp, and it was magic.

I guess a hybrid setup is usually the best solution to any "analog vs. digital" argument. I'm a big fan digital DAW's routed out through analog hardware, then summed by an analog console. Honor the past, embrace the future.
Stab Frenzy wrote:
kerpan wrote:I don't want to be the j**k on the bus who's writing dubstep on headphones.
Can you see how this statement might cause people to think you're a bit of a d**k? Not saying that you are of course, just that the things you say are giving people that impression. :thumbleft:
Yeah, that makes sense. It was a pretty strong comment. Regardless of my personal feelings on the matter, a pair of Sennheisers and a Mac Book Pro can work wonders on the bus.

Regarding my personal feelings, I think it's one of those things that is so economical, and accessible to the common man, that there's a majority of hacks who pick up software on a whim. In capable hands, dubstep on the bus can be a classy affair.

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Re: Analog, VA or..... the future?

Post by cornutt » Mon Aug 29, 2011 9:12 pm

Stab Frenzy wrote:It's hard to do really complicated stuff with just one patch because you don't have enough hands to do it all at the same time, but you can get a fair bit done with keys, mod wheel, aftertouch and a bit of knob tweaking.
I thought he was talking about a self-running patch... one that would play an entire song (presumably without using any kind of sequencer that has memory).
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Re: Analog, VA or..... the future?

Post by adamstan » Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:58 am

I thought he was talking about a self-running patch... one that would play an entire song
But what's the point? The only one I can see is that you can then boast that you played it LIVE, no sequencing (like "sequencing is cheating") ;-)
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Re: Analog, VA or..... the future?

Post by cartesia » Tue Aug 30, 2011 6:52 am

WELL you see, that idea for a synth patch, was supposed to be taken alongside my thoughts about the future of possible controllers...capable of controlling much more in realtime with just 2 hands...

So no, it's not about 1 key producing a whole song, and its not about a synthpatch that plays itself.. It's a controller & matching synth/whatever that gives you the ability to shift between wildly different timbres in a controllable manner, quickly enough to layer & rhythmically play, but with more than just 2 or 3 parameters which we currently get to work with (or being forced to map multiple parameters to the same control, which is quite limiting, even with multipliers/etc thrown in)

I guess once half of it got quoted without the other half it kinda lost it's explanation

Max/msp is definitely a capable basis, for developing musical ideas but the controller development is the real issue.

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Re: Analog, VA or..... the future?

Post by adamstan » Tue Aug 30, 2011 11:06 am

It's a controller & matching synth/whatever that gives you the ability to shift between wildly different timbres in a controllable manner, quickly enough to layer & rhythmically play,
OK, now I see your point more clearly. When speaking about more control and ability to play more parts in realtime, then maybe it's time to use organ-like controller? Pedalboard makes great difference, and when keyboards are that close to each other like organ manuals are, you can even play two parts on adjacent keyboards with one hand. Thumb- and toe- switches allow for quick sound changes, then there's that nice feature on some acuostic theater organs, when you can bring in another layer using aftertouch etc...
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Re: Analog, VA or..... the future?

Post by Hossinfeffa » Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:41 am

adamstan wrote:OK, now I see your point more clearly. When speaking about more control and ability to play more parts in realtime, then maybe it's time to use organ-like controller? Pedalboard makes great difference, and when keyboards are that close to each other like organ manuals are, you can even play two parts on adjacent keyboards with one hand. Thumb- and toe- switches allow for quick sound changes, then there's that nice feature on some acuostic theater organs, when you can bring in another layer using aftertouch etc...
These setups do seem to work pretty well. The guy I bought my D-50 from had been using it as a part of an organ setup. He took 3 D-50's and 3 D-550's together with a RA-800, and mashed them all together into a custom built cabinet. He was using a pedalboard controller as well.

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Re: Analog, VA or..... the future?

Post by Stab Frenzy » Fri Sep 02, 2011 3:21 am

cartesia wrote:WELL you see, that idea for a synth patch, was supposed to be taken alongside my thoughts about the future of possible controllers...capable of controlling much more in realtime with just 2 hands...

So no, it's not about 1 key producing a whole song, and its not about a synthpatch that plays itself.. It's a controller & matching synth/whatever that gives you the ability to shift between wildly different timbres in a controllable manner, quickly enough to layer & rhythmically play, but with more than just 2 or 3 parameters which we currently get to work with (or being forced to map multiple parameters to the same control, which is quite limiting, even with multipliers/etc thrown in)

I guess once half of it got quoted without the other half it kinda lost it's explanation

Max/msp is definitely a capable basis, for developing musical ideas but the controller development is the real issue.
I totally get what you're saying, when I was working at a University I was doing a bit of research into this exact subject. I still believe that for one person to do a whole song with a single patch is too much and shouldn't be the goal in new instrument/controller design.

Increasing the expression of electronic instruments is very important, and being able to get a wide range of repeatable, controllable timbres out of a single patch is a good goal, but I don't believe a single instrument should be a whole track. The increase in expression would really come into its own when playing with other musicians, rather than solo.

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Re: Analog, VA or..... the future?

Post by b3groover » Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:37 pm

You guys hip to the Ondes Martonet? Probably one of the most expressive electronic instruments ever made and yet monophonic and damn near monotimbral (meaning it only has one or two "sounds") but as expressive as a violin or cello.

Buchla has worked for years to try and make controllers that were more expressive. It's very tough (and expensive).

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Re: Analog, VA or..... the future?

Post by SSquirrel » Tue Feb 14, 2012 7:19 pm

Stab Frenzy wrote:I totally get what you're saying, when I was working at a University I was doing a bit of research into this exact subject. I still believe that for one person to do a whole song with a single patch is too much and shouldn't be the goal in new instrument/controller design.

Increasing the expression of electronic instruments is very important, and being able to get a wide range of repeatable, controllable timbres out of a single patch is a good goal, but I don't believe a single instrument should be a whole track. The increase in expression would really come into its own when playing with other musicians, rather than solo.
Eigenharp? :)

Yeah it's a MIDI controller, but it's a fun idea and very flexible as shown in several videos

EDIT: Ack! Sorry for the 5 month necro heh. What I get for reading the similar links at the bottom of threads :)

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Re: Analog, VA or..... the future?

Post by mute » Wed Feb 15, 2012 2:48 am

Instrument A or Technology B doesn't make Instrument C or Technology D any less powerful or useful. Unique is unique, no matter where it comes from.

Digital and software based synths/instruments have made alot of ground the last couple of years, taking them in more areas than before with sounds that are honestly their own instead of just trying to emulate something hardware does.

Why can't the best of all worlds exist? Why do some people think the "future" is seperate from the "past"? That is moronic and uneducated thinking. h**l, we live in a post-modern society that just won't quit. It's almost suffocating at times. Particularly in pop-culture.

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Re: Analog, VA or..... the future?

Post by Destructobot » Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:13 am

Yawn. I mean, yes.....old synths are useless.

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Re: Analog, VA or..... the future?

Post by Cumulus » Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:48 pm

b3groover wrote:You guys hip to the Ondes Martonet? Probably one of the most expressive electronic instruments ever made and yet monophonic and damn near monotimbral (meaning it only has one or two "sounds") but as expressive as a violin or cello.

Buchla has worked for years to try and make controllers that were more expressive. It's very tough (and expensive).
Yep. It kicks butt. I am a theremin guy but for playability and more precise control, the Ondes is awesome.

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Re: Analog, VA or..... the future?

Post by BlackGnosis » Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:49 pm

tekkentool wrote:
kerpan wrote:I'm bored with all the digital and VST garbage my friends are using. I'm hard pressed in my demographic to find other people who are into hardware... of any type.

kerpan wrote:but who really wants to debate these opinion based issues?
Evidently you? I'm really sorry that my VST garbage and the dubstep pumping out of them as I ride along on the bus offends you, but being a bit of a d**k about it won't help you. It just invites conflict.

To me the original poster is not outwardly just smashing analogues because they're old etc. To me it seems like it he's just pissed off at analogue elitism, not being a software elitist. He's probably just pissed off at all the people constantly talking about how much better analogue is, not actually angry that people might enjoy them. Could I see the original context in which he posted that?

Also nukitfromorbit, don't look to VST synths for emulations please, they're not very good at that. But there's plenty of amazing VST's out there that no hardware sounds like in the same way it goes the opposite direction. Check out absynth, reaktor, etc. Stuff like waldorf largo is nice too.
Image This guy might be onto something!
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Ashe37 wrote:I find it funny that you're a guitar pedal snob and yet don't own a single analog synth.

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Re: Analog, VA or..... the future?

Post by Ashe37 » Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:28 am

tekkentool wrote:
Also nukitfromorbit, don't look to VST synths for emulations please, they're not very good at that. But there's plenty of amazing VST's out there that no hardware sounds like in the same way it goes the opposite direction. Check out absynth, reaktor, etc. Stuff like waldorf largo is nice too.

I think stuff like Diva proves that emulation can be done with VSTs and as computing power increases that the emulations will only get better. Diva sounds great and runs fine on a reasonably modern machine but everyone running 4+ year old machines is complaining about how horrible its CPU usage is. This will keep happening the more people use advanced circuit modeling techniques for VSTs

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