digital junk

Discussions about anything analog, digital, MIDI, synth technology, techniques, theories and more.
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Hybrid88
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Re: digital junk

Post by Hybrid88 » Tue Oct 04, 2011 2:35 pm

^Very true, but that's electro-mechanical which is a bit different again.

To the OP all I can say is, s**t happens - doesn't matter what it is, digital hardware, analog hardware and software which can be just as much of a big pain in the arse when dealing with system requirements, liscence transfers, bugs and crashs etc.

My advice is, don't let it ruin your day - get it fixed, move on ;)

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Re: digital junk

Post by Psy_Free » Tue Oct 04, 2011 4:23 pm

Good name for a band or an album though.
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Re: digital junk

Post by Solderman » Tue Oct 04, 2011 4:42 pm

As an extension to tek's post, it's not necessarily low-end gear that can become unpredictable.

My Virus b, which cost $1100 new, changes certain patch values if you merely press Edit or Ctrl, and LFO2 Edit saves the patch! No amount of wiping the OS and installing various versions will fix it.
As a fully featured menu-diving VA synth with a mod matrix, it's f**k. I use it for pads and to send Midi CC's to vst's now, so it's not totally useless, but these things do happen.
I am no longer in pursuit of vintage synths. The generally absurd inflation from demand versus practical use and maintenance costs is no longer viable. The internet has suffocated and vanquished yet another wonderful hobby. Too bad.
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Re: digital junk

Post by Richard Gear » Tue Oct 04, 2011 11:59 pm

tallowwaters wrote:
Richard Gear wrote:After a 5 years hiatus, I got back into dating and I've met a lot of people over the past few months.

I was looking for a man and instead dated a woman, thinking it would be less risky than a genuine man. After 1½ year of sparse use, she started to act weird ; random mood swings, sudden harsh feedback, non-responding bits... Obviously, I have to get her fixed because she is useless like this.

I've been in touch with a doctor and he said it will cost me 100$ to get her fixed, plus transport (Canada to USA, USA to Canada). Overall, it will cost me at least 160$ for someone I met less than 2 years ago that is worth no more than 300$ on the used market. Obviously, I realise that I should have dated a man at first.

From all the people I've met, the women have been the least reliable.

It made me realise that :
- Women are not necessarily more reliable than men (even the upscale ones).
- Unlike men, when women crash, there's no hope.
- If the hair falls out, the women becomes junk.
- Unlike men, most new women will probably not hold much of their value.


Nostalgia aside, they are some good reasons to date men
Really, this is no less of an absurd argument.
Gee!!! I can see your point, but I really hope you don't believe that the priciples/logics that apply to machines can also be applied to human beings and personnal relationships. If so, you personnal life must be pretty messed up...

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Re: digital junk

Post by Stab Frenzy » Wed Oct 05, 2011 12:03 am

Hybrid88 wrote:^Very true, but that's electro-mechanical which is a bit different again.
Richard Gear wrote:Obviously, I realise that I should have bought a real tape echo at first.

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Re: digital junk

Post by tallowwaters » Wed Oct 05, 2011 1:57 am

Richard Gear wrote:
tallowwaters wrote:
Richard Gear wrote:After a 5 years hiatus, I got back into dating and I've met a lot of people over the past few months.

I was looking for a man and instead dated a woman, thinking it would be less risky than a genuine man. After 1½ year of sparse use, she started to act weird ; random mood swings, sudden harsh feedback, non-responding bits... Obviously, I have to get her fixed because she is useless like this.

I've been in touch with a doctor and he said it will cost me 100$ to get her fixed, plus transport (Canada to USA, USA to Canada). Overall, it will cost me at least 160$ for someone I met less than 2 years ago that is worth no more than 300$ on the used market. Obviously, I realise that I should have dated a man at first.

From all the people I've met, the women have been the least reliable.

It made me realise that :
- Women are not necessarily more reliable than men (even the upscale ones).
- Unlike men, when women crash, there's no hope.
- If the hair falls out, the women becomes junk.
- Unlike men, most new women will probably not hold much of their value.


Nostalgia aside, they are some good reasons to date men
Really, this is no less of an absurd argument.
Gee!!! I can see your point, but I really hope you don't believe that the priciples/logics that apply to machines can also be applied to human beings and personnal relationships. If so, you personnal life must be pretty messed up...
Huh, so it sounds weird when I state my preferences in a self assuring way, then explain my addled logic to justify said thought processes on a public forum? Go figure.
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Re: digital junk

Post by tekkentool » Wed Oct 05, 2011 2:14 am

Stab Frenzy wrote: Try getting anyone to fix a Roland Space Echo with a burnt out motor and tell me how much luck you have.
This.

Moving parts = wear and fatigue. It means it's just more like a matter of time, not a chance of requiring service.

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Re: digital junk

Post by Stab Frenzy » Wed Oct 05, 2011 3:10 am

Not only that, but the only way to repair a broken space echo motor is to replace it, and Roland are out of spares. So the only way to repair a space echo is to destroy another space echo.

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Re: digital junk

Post by rhino » Wed Oct 05, 2011 3:34 am

Richard Gear wrote: Overall, it will cost me at least 160$ for something I bought new less than 2 years ago and that worths no more than 300$ on the used market.
There will always be problems that you can't fix yourself. Yeah, it sux when almost new gear breaks, but that's life. I lost a bunch of $$$ when a VFX I got for cheap needed the mainboard sent to TheSoniq to the tune of $175.00. My other choice: throw it onto a shelf for parts.
Richard Gear wrote:- If the company gets out of business, the defective unit becomes junk.
Now THAT'S a b***h. The day will come when certain vintage sysths will be unfixable...what a shittin loss.

Bottom line: Get it fixed and use it, sell for parts, junk it, throw it in the closet. The choice is yours.
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Re: digital junk

Post by GuyaGuy » Wed Oct 05, 2011 6:17 am

I like pickles.

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Hybrid88
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Re: digital junk

Post by Hybrid88 » Wed Oct 05, 2011 9:10 am

Stab Frenzy wrote:
Hybrid88 wrote:^Very true, but that's electro-mechanical which is a bit different again.
Richard Gear wrote:Obviously, I realise that I should have bought a real tape echo at first.
Ah ok I see what you meant. ;)

I was just saying that anything electro-mechanical is obviously going to need more ongoing maintenance than anything else analog or digital.

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Re: digital junk

Post by madtheory » Wed Oct 05, 2011 1:34 pm

Richard Gear wrote:My point is that even if you have to fix some old gear... well at leat you can find some tech to do it. But with the new stuff, you have to rely on the company to do it. And it's no good.
This is simply not true. As long as there is access to service manuals, any tech will handle it. Your Eventide issue sounds like a mechanical fault rather than an electronic one. The signal from the front panel encoders is getting messed up. I would look at the connectors between front panel and PCB, be they soldered, ribbon or WHY, and test the encoders too. Might just be dust from lack of use!

I think it's a mistake to generalise about reliability. Obviously, only the vintage gear that is well built will survive, so of course it will seem better than the currently available badly made stuff!! Roland and Yamaha for example, still build their stuff to a very high standard.

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Re: digital junk

Post by Richard Gear » Wed Oct 05, 2011 2:49 pm

Sudden parameter fluctuation is probably not a mechanical issue unfortunately.

Sorry for the gross generalisations from my original post, but I needed to express my frustration for having to ship abroad new material (and that's very costy) for something rather new that will not hold its value.

But as Hybryd wisely said, I should move on to something else...

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Re: digital junk

Post by Fatbenelton » Wed Oct 05, 2011 3:50 pm

I have a lot of analogue gear (synths, drum machines and FX) and quite a lot of digital stuff too (synths, drum machines and FX!) - love them all and not trying to get into a analogue vs digital debate which to be honest I don't think the original poster intended to either.....
I think the opening gambit was probably along the lines of, "hey, the original vintage stuff may be more expensive but actually I think it may be easier to maintain in the long term."
Not sure if that is true but thinking about it, I have a few synths from the 70's that are going strong and still maintainable nearly 40 years on. Yes, the OEM parts may be obsolete but many of them are still available. Some even have modern replacements (Juno 106 ship, CEM5530 workaround from wine country etc). It's unlikely many of them will still be going in another 40 years (some will - most won't I grant you) but it's fair to say the the analogue stuff will still be repairable and maintainable for 50 years...(ie another 10-15 years for at least half of them).

Flip to the digital synths and FX of the last 10 years or so and consider how many will be repairable in 2030/40/50.......Lot's of complex motherboards and software, repair ethos of replacing the whole board etc. Also the analogue stuff has 'graceful degradation' in that if a CEM chip goes in my Prophet 600 etc I lose a voice and not the whole synth..............

Clearly, I don't know the in and outs of Korg,Roland etc and perhaps a MV8000 will be repairable in 20/30 years. I fully except that Roland don't support any product after a few years but the nature of analogue stuff (ie lots of discreet componants and CEM chips etc that are used in a wide variety of synths rather than just one) means that the 3rd party support has been strong for the last 40 years........Not sure about the modern stuff....
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Re: digital junk

Post by Richard Gear » Thu Oct 06, 2011 12:48 am

To Fatbenelton : Right on. I could not have said it better.

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