What a great list of gear

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Moped10
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Re: What a great list of gear

Post by Moped10 » Thu Apr 05, 2012 2:57 pm

e-angst is so e-unflattering- I see no reason why a young synth entusiast can't express his opinion without getting sneered at- this is just a silly forum to play on while uninspired to create music, right? or do some of you guys actually feel an e-identity here, and thus reason to e-bully virtual strangers around?

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Re: What a great list of gear

Post by bhrama » Thu Apr 05, 2012 2:57 pm

Fight Fight Fight!

Seriously, chill...I'm actually embarrased about not having heard about Arjen Lucassen! Now I'm stoked, so thanks for that.

But seriously, isn't it about the motion of the ocean - not the size of the boat...or something of that manner. Personally I've found a more refined creative approach through a smaller set-up, with solid well rounded gear. Sure I'd love to have a room full of one-trick ponies, and outlandish badass boards (most people here would - deep down if we had no constraints...lets be honest folks), but it isn't in the mix (no pun intended) for me at this time.

One guy gets it done with a forest, another with a single tree.

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Re: What a great list of gear

Post by samuraipizzacat29 » Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:23 pm

my goal was not to be a tool, merely to mention the irony. on one hand, I care how someone gets to a sound, but only from the standpoint of how to make that sound. That's why, to me, it doesn't make sense to have a butt load of analogs that may have nuances in character and no, say, dx-7. just like 100 distortions or 100 guitars doesn't do it for me (and yet agreed if I could, I would) but rather 3 different guitars of different technologies to have access to the sounds I want to make.

that's probably the whole thing that I rail against is the turn that progressive has taken, or at least branches of progressive has taken. the opening line from the wiki article explains it:
"Progressive rock (also referred to as prog rock or prog) is a subgenre of rock music[1] that developed in the late 1960s and early 1970s as part of "a mostly British attempt to elevate rock music to new levels of artistic credibility."

drop d shredding doesn't lend itself to artistic credibility (imo). yeah, we know you know the harmonic minor. what else is new, what else is progressive?

don't get me wrong, I LOVE the odd vocals, odd timings, creativity, general weirdness etc that is supposed to be what progressive music is all about. like this:

at right around 2:05 there's a guitar solo in harmony with a vocal solo where it almost just sounds like the guitar is run through some sorta weird formant/delay type thingy but it's vocals (I think).

anyway, it's all for the sake of fun so have at it and don't listen a shred to what I think. I think it's hard for me because all the really cool stuff gets drowned in a lot of bland sameness. just like any other genre i suppose. alas I can't take the shredding just like I can't take noisy drones or too chaotic of jazz.

thanks again for the share

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Re: What a great list of gear

Post by Ned Bouhalassa » Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:45 pm

Moped10 wrote:e-angst is so e-unflattering- I see no reason why a young synth entusiast can't express his opinion without getting sneered at- this is just a silly forum to play on while uninspired to create music, right? or do some of you guys actually feel an e-identity here, and thus reason to e-bully virtual strangers around?
Are you referring to the OP or to Alex? If it's Alex, can you explain the worth of basically shooting down the whole point of a thread just because you disagree with it? It's not like the OP asked something like, "What do you guys think about having a bunch of gear instead of just a few instruments you really use all the time?". The whole point of this discussion is to read about and discuss a 'great list of gear'. If you don't think it's an interesting/worthwhile subject, WTF are you doing in this thread? To me, anyways, it reads a lot like someone being a contrarian for the attention.
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Re: What a great list of gear

Post by tekkentool » Thu Apr 05, 2012 4:22 pm

I don't mind alex's sentiment it just wasn't necessary in this thread as Arjen makes a whole boatload of awesome. It was only ever going to derail it anyway and I'm so f**k mad it has.

Personally, I believe it shouldn't matter how much or what gear they used. You judge it by the final product of musical output and nothing more. Doesn't matter how you get there I'm just interested in what you ended out with. Whatever you find you like? more power to you.
samuraipizzacat29 wrote:Honestly when I read the gear list I think of what PROG is supposed to stand for and find it ironic that it basically contains has-been type synth sounds. To me, a truly progressive setup would have a little of everything. Again, just my opinion.
I understand you're simply pointing out an idiosyncrasy within progressive rock, but I would have to respectfully disagree in the context of Arjen's work, into the electric castle was created as a kind of response to inorganic albums and music, all of the old analogues and "retro" synth programming gives the entire album a warm, transparent and clear sound that is just perfect for the dreamlike quality of the music and concept.

The combination of all of the sitars, mandolins, flute, string quarter, acoustic guitars, hammond organs, world class vocal talent AND the soft creamy analogue synthesizers just works perfectly for me. It doesn't matter that those elements aren't modern by themselves, together in the context of ITEC they definitely elevate rock music to a new level of artistic credibility.

At least in my opinion they do... Give the first CD a listen if you still haven't (second Disc rocks too!)

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Re: What a great list of gear

Post by samuraipizzacat29 » Thu Apr 05, 2012 4:38 pm

right on. - I haven't listened to it yet and plan to, it's just my google chrome installation/java/IDK-what hates more than one or two youtube videos in a row.

and I was trying to keep it on-topic in the sense that it said "what a great list of gear" and I was thinking "well, it's a list of gear anyway" and pointing out that in my mind the mix of gear doesn't necessarily fit the M.O. of what I'd consider progressive, whether it's to its gain or its detriment.

it's all fun, so I 100% agree with the sentiment that to bash someone for what they have is kinda :? I mean, you know you can simply not turn it on if you don't want to use it right? I have stuff piled in every corner of my house, and it doesn't make me suck any more or less if i didn't have it. Honestly, the knowledge I get from learning new things is disproportionately more important than the lack I have from not being able to play everything at once.

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Re: What a great list of gear

Post by ninja6485 » Thu Apr 05, 2012 5:21 pm

tekkentool wrote:The most fantastic thing about arjen anthony luassen
:oops: :giveheart: Tekken and Arjen sittin in a tree...
tekkentool wrote:Personally, I believe it shouldn't matter how much or what gear they used. You judge it by the final product of musical output and nothing more. Doesn't matter how you get there I'm just interested in what you ended out with. Whatever you find you like? more power to you.
In some ways I disagree, but in others I agree. Some people think about their setups like it's a little factory. Like they're making quilts or something. Like all they want to do is crank out products and get the process out of the way. That's a buisiness production model, not an artistic creative model. The specifics of what you use takes a back seat to being invested in the creative process. You will never complete being a musician ; it's a process of continual becoming. So in that way, yes it shouldn't matter (to others) what gear you use. But from an individual perspective, it matters a lot because your gear is "where the rubber meets the road" so to speak. As part of your process of becoming, it needs to be satisfying. Each artist is armed with an aesthetic, and the gear reflects that ; whatever it may be: a computer, a few nice polysynths, a va, whatever. So it matters, but not in a way that favors one specific type of thing over another. It's absurd to set the process out of the way and only focus on the product. You're never going to make the definitive song: the product is just the shedded skin of the process. The goal is not to make a group of songs, but to creatively satisfied by what your doing. This includes, but is not limited to making a group of songs. In other words, song making is a neccesary but not sufficient condition for being satisfied as an artist. What is a sufficient condition is being invested in the process of creation, which naturally leads to songwriting anyway, and cheritably elucidates the value of large gear lists as well as minimalist ones.
This looks like a psychotropic reaction. No wonder it's so popular...

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Re: What a great list of gear

Post by Moped10 » Thu Apr 05, 2012 6:17 pm

Are you referring to the OP or to Alex? If it's Alex, can you explain the worth of basically shooting down the whole point of a thread just because you disagree with it? It's not like the OP asked something like, "What do you guys think about having a bunch of gear instead of just a few instruments you really use all the time?". The whole point of this discussion is to read about and discuss a 'great list of gear'. If you don't think it's an interesting/worthwhile subject, WTF are you doing in this thread? To me, anyways, it reads a lot like someone being a contrarian for the attention.
ah, I get weary of forum sniping and inferred personal insults- you can disregard my mini-rant

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Re: What a great list of gear

Post by Alex E » Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:07 pm

Ned Bouhalassa wrote: And you think most of us care because?
Image
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Re: What a great list of gear

Post by tekkentool » Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:25 am

ninja6485 wrote: :oops: :giveheart: Tekken and Arjen sittin in a tree...
I'll take that :lol: to say I'm in love with his work would be an understatement.
ninja6485 wrote:In some ways I disagree, but in others I agree. Some people think about their setups like it's a little factory. Like they're making quilts or something. Like all they want to do is crank out products and get the process out of the way. That's a buisiness production model, not an artistic creative model.
Okay at this point I'll have to admit that is exactly how I think about my setups. A while back I sort of came to the epiphany that all music has a basic core to it that makes perfect sense to human beings, it's why most everyone finds things like chords and scales pleasing. that means there's a set of requirements to fulfill and I sort of started looking at music as more of a manufacturing process and less of a freeform artform. I stopped calling myself an artist and started using more terms like "engineer" and "producer". It is definitely part of the reason I use software for my music, I don't have fun just f**k around twisting knobs in software. It's go-time all the time when I'm in software. That just wouldn't happen when I was using My Cz-1/MK/D-110 etc. Piano/guitar are my f**k around instruments now I guess.
ninja6485 wrote:In other words, song making is a neccesary but not sufficient condition for being satisfied as an artist. What is a sufficient condition is being invested in the process of creation, which naturally leads to songwriting anyway, and cheritably elucidates the value of large gear lists as well as minimalist ones.
I'll take that too, you're correct here. I suppose different gear setups would also reflect different original outlooks, what I do reflects a business production model, somebody running modulars for everything etc. could be reflecting a more artistic origin.

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Re: What a great list of gear

Post by Ned Bouhalassa » Fri Apr 06, 2012 4:51 am

Alex E wrote:
Ned Bouhalassa wrote: And you think most of us care because?
Image
Good point! :lol:
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Re: What a great list of gear

Post by Alex E » Fri Apr 06, 2012 6:45 am

Glad you're on my level. 8-)
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Re: What a great list of gear

Post by b3groover » Fri Apr 06, 2012 6:52 am

Never heard of Arjen. Neat stuff. Reminds me more of Kansas style prog than something like 70's Genesis or Yes.

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Re: What a great list of gear

Post by tekkentool » Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:31 pm

b3groover wrote:Never heard of Arjen. Neat stuff. Reminds me more of Kansas style prog than something like 70's Genesis or Yes.
It reminds me of the best thing I've ever heard.

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Re: What a great list of gear

Post by bhrama » Fri Apr 06, 2012 1:34 pm

tekkentool wrote:
b3groover wrote:Never heard of Arjen. Neat stuff. Reminds me more of Kansas style prog than something like 70's Genesis or Yes.
It reminds me of the best thing I've ever heard.
***edit** "It reminds me of the best thing I've ever heard, yet." 8-)

Tekken there is a whole world of music out there, I'm still stunned and pleasantly surprised all the time. If that is indeed true, you're a lucky man.

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