Make high quality digi synth sound Exactly analogue

Discussions about anything analog, digital, MIDI, synth technology, techniques, theories and more.
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silikon
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Re: Make high quality digi synth sound Exactly analogue

Post by silikon » Thu Apr 12, 2012 3:54 pm

GuyaGuy wrote:witness the empirical evidence.
GuyaGuy wrote:analogue synthesis sounds at least 10-15% warmer and arguably 20% more organic than analog synthesis
:? I can't tell if you're serious or not. Well played. I think.
Stab Frenzy wrote:vox345 wrote:
This is not another analog vs digital train wreck thread or anything.


I doubt that very much.
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Re: Make high quality digi synth sound Exactly analogue

Post by Stab Frenzy » Thu Apr 12, 2012 5:03 pm

GuyaGuy wrote:It really depends on whether you want analogue or analog. I know it's a hot topic and if you search "analogue vs. analog" you'll found countless debates, but you just have to look up GainstageAutomatique's YouTube videos to witness the empirical evidence. It's been demonstrated repeatedly with controlled tests using triple-rectifier oscilloscopes that analogue synthesis sounds at least 10-15% warmer and arguably 20% more organic than analog synthesis. Facts don't lie. But what is debatable is the cause. Some claim the 220V of analogue create a hotter sound and the 110V of analog makes the sound thinner. Some claim that Godwin's law dictates that the Goebbels effect contributes, but I do not see how. In any case, I think we are as a society past the analogue AND analog age. The most interesting synths out now are virtual digital.
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Re: Make high quality digi synth sound Exactly analogue

Post by Zamise » Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:41 pm

yes
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Re: Make high quality digi synth sound Exactly analogue

Post by vox345 » Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:27 am

Stab Frenzy wrote:
vox345 wrote:I’m told there’s nothing out there that can modulate a digi LFO or envelope to mimic analog’s behavior, so this is just about the sound/oscs then.
No, you've been told the opposite, repeatedly.
You said it here:
Stab Frenzy wrote:
vox345 wrote:it's like I'm saying if said digi lfo goes into audio range but is quality enough that we can' hear stepping falls/aliasing then it's the same as an analog except an analog has all those unpredictable and/or random harmonics and changes which should be able to be mimicked digitally to get the same affect. Takes some knowlege of what exactly to program, but am I on to something?
No.

People who are telling you there is a difference are being sarcastic. There is no such thing as "unpredictable and/or random harmonics and changes which should be able to be mimicked digitally" when you're talking about LFOs and envelopes.

“Supersaws? Really? There's nothing more digital sounding than supersaws. Why don't you actually get a synth and do this to it, see what happens. It would be a horrible mess I think.”

I said “I GUESS the sort of things I’d add to the digi synth would be…” Supersaws sound ‘fat’ because of the added sounds. Added sounds are a main reason analogues sound ‘fat’/warm’. Minibrute has a sort of supersaw and many other fx/features and white noise it can spit out at once, MB is horrible mess?



Forget my OP then and let me simply ask it like this. Thanks.
Why would I possibly want an analogue synthesizer (disregard a synth’s actual tone that I might personally like or not, mixing or composition skills, etc. I’m just talking about the signal architecture) if I had a non-aliasing digital synthesizer and software elaborate enough to manipulate it in infinite/almost infinite ways to mimic analogue behavior? I’m just trying to understand the analogue craze. Is it ‘cause analog does all the work for you?

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Re: Make high quality digi synth sound Exactly analogue

Post by tallowwaters » Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:11 am

silikon wrote:
GuyaGuy wrote:witness the empirical evidence.
GuyaGuy wrote:analogue synthesis sounds at least 10-15% warmer and arguably 20% more organic than analog synthesis
:? I can't tell if you're serious or not. Well played. I think.
It's a hilariously sarcastic response to an incredibly ignorant thread. I say we ignore the obvious troll or simply mock the posts.
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Re: Make high quality digi synth sound Exactly analogue

Post by Cumulus » Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:05 am

vox345 wrote:
Forget my OP then and let me simply ask it like this. Thanks.
Why would I possibly want an analogue synthesizer (disregard a synth’s actual tone that I might personally like or not, mixing or composition skills, etc. I’m just talking about the signal architecture) if I had a non-aliasing digital synthesizer and software elaborate enough to manipulate it in infinite/almost infinite ways to mimic analogue behavior? I’m just trying to understand the analogue craze. Is it ‘cause analog does all the work for you?
1. There may come a day when software can mimck analog circuitry so completely that it captures its whole essence right down to the sometimes unpredictable randomness that we love about our analog. If that ever happens then a good chunk of bandwidth here on VSE will free up.

2. Yes, analog synths do all the work for us.

I like to turn on my MiniMoog and plop my a*s on the couch with a pint of Haagen Dasz while it composes, performs and records a piece of music for me.

The newer Moogs actually post songs on the intranet and file copyright paperwork with the Library of Congress.

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Re: Make high quality digi synth sound Exactly analogue

Post by ApolloBoy » Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:13 am

vox345 wrote:Is it ‘cause analog does all the work for you?
Yep, my Jupiter-4, MG-1 and Monotron perform all my housework, pay my bills and cook all my meals for me. It's a pretty tidy arrangement and I wouldn't have it any other way!
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Re: Make high quality digi synth sound Exactly analogue

Post by Ned Bouhalassa » Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:52 am

Say you have a DX7 or an Nord Lead 2. Just send their digi output to a little analog filter like one found on this baby:

Image
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Re: Make high quality digi synth sound Exactly analogue

Post by Zamise » Fri Apr 13, 2012 4:06 am

That would be cool if the DX7 or Nord lead 2 had digital outputs and that casio or whatever it is had a digital input.
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Re: Make high quality digi synth sound Exactly analogue

Post by vox345 » Fri Apr 13, 2012 4:46 am

Zamise wrote:That would be cool if the DX7 or Nord lead 2 had digital outputs and that casio or whatever it is had a digital input.
Or yer just being sarcastic.
^ is an Electronic Music Studios (EMS) VCS3, a sought after vintage analogue. Pink Floyd made Welcome to the Machine with it.

You people are something else. Praise analogues but won’t offer help to an interested person asking on a forum. Take everything I say too literally, twist it around and try and make me come across as a troll/d**k/idiot. Like with the digi vs analog lfo I asked about. It was a big joke on me and an obsolete question untill someone said it might add digital aliasing if in audio range.

Were you not told by someone most of the complex synth stuff you know, or did you sit around with oscilloscopes or whatever and PHDs in EE and figured this all out on your own?

I must have been dead on about adding elaborate layers of harmonics and randomization to a high quality enough
digital synth to mimic analog nearly exact minus what can be said obsolete exact replication of said layers and harmonics as if I wanted to exactly mimic a JP8. People on other forums agreed with my idea. I’d love for you to prove me wrong, that’s all I’m asking.
Last edited by vox345 on Fri Apr 13, 2012 4:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Make high quality digi synth sound Exactly analogue

Post by GuyaGuy » Fri Apr 13, 2012 4:57 am

vox345 wrote:
Zamise wrote:That would be cool if the DX7 or Nord lead 2 had digital outputs and that casio or whatever it is had a digital input.
Or yer just being sarcastic.
^ is an Electronic Music Studios (EMS) VCS3, a sought after vintage analogue. Pink Floyd made Welcome to the Machine with it.

You people are something else. Praise analogues but won’t offer help to an interested person asking on a forum. Take everything I say too literally, twist it around and try and make me come across as a troll/d**k/idiot. Like with the digi vs analog lfo I asked about. It was a big joke on me and an obsolete question untill someone said it might add digital aliasing if in audio range.
I must have been dead on about adding elaborate layers of harmonics and randomization to a high quality enough digital synth to mimic analog nearly exact minus what can be said obsolete exact replication of said layers and harmonics as if I wanted to exactly mimic a JP8. People on other forums agreed with my idea. I’d love for you to prove me wrong, that’s all I’m asking. You might ban me and erase this post as to not magnify the situation.

Were you not told by someone most of the complex synth stuff you know, or did you sit around with oscilloscopes or whatever and PHDs in EE and figured this all out on your own?
:stop:

Please see OP.
vox345 wrote:Do not reply if you don’t know what yer talking about.This is not another analog vs digital train wreck thread or anything.

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Re: Make high quality digi synth sound Exactly analogue

Post by balma » Fri Apr 13, 2012 5:15 am

vox345 wrote:Do not reply if you don’t know what yer talking about.
Image

....the Sacred Quest of Creating Something Digital that Perfectly Resembles "Analog".
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Re: Make high quality digi synth sound Exactly analogue

Post by Cumulus » Fri Apr 13, 2012 5:33 am

I am glad for the people on the other forums.

Do they also agree that their analog synths do all the work?

I would like to pretend that you are asking serious questions but then you brought out that little gem. What are we supposed to think?

I will say that it is certainlyBtheoretically possible (or will be someday) for software to so perfectly simulate or emulat analog circuitry so as to be indistinguishable from the real thing. Until then there is no substitute for analog, just as their is no substitute for digital.

What do you want from us? A recipe? We don't have it. If you find a way to do it, please let us know. There are people on this board who would love to be able to perfectly simulate hat phat analog sound without paying that phat analog money.

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Re: Make high quality digi synth sound Exactly analogue

Post by Cumulus » Fri Apr 13, 2012 5:36 am

Now, if you'll all excuse me, I have a TR 808 that doesn't know how to separate the whites from the colors. The damned thing ruined several pairs of socks and my wife's best skivvies last week.

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Re: Make high quality digi synth sound Exactly analogue

Post by Don T » Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:00 am

"Oh, this isn't an argument!"
"Yes it is."
"It's just contradiction."
"No it isn't."
"An argument is a connected series of statements, intended to establish a proposition."
"Look, if I'm to argue with you, I must take up a contrary position."
"Yes, but it isn't just by saying 'No it isn't.'."
"Yes it is."
"NO IT ISN'T!"

Actually, if you guys want to see a real argument, go to a high-end audio forum and ask which is better, CD or Vinyl... :twisted:
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