Collecting, eBay and Synth Economics

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Re: Collecting, eBay and Synth Economics

Post by 8bit9bot » Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:11 am

i can't afford to be a collector - i don't think i would be one if i could be... my main reason for being interested in musical instruments is to make music - i do have some resentment towards collectors because they have better setups than me... and i'm a composer - but i can't be too mad... if i really wanted expensive gear i should have gone into a different field other than music - how ironic is that

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Re: Collecting, eBay and Synth Economics

Post by phesago » Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:22 am

GuyaGuy wrote:
phesago wrote:
The joke being that the only gauge of value that anyone uses is ebay. From my previous experience with a very similar type of work/train of thought, I have concluded that ebay is the worst way to value any real idea of what any item is worth. Theres to much factors playing into each indivdual sale to make ti a reliable pricing guide. Though to be fair, it is generally spot on, but my complaints, and point, is referencing the manipulative asshole who sees "X" synth sell for significantly lower than average price due to seller having some arbitrary trait that would dictate him selling at a lower price and then to turn around and hold fast to this new "price" as a means to try and f**k you, as if magically the circumstances involving that one particular sale had any real effect on what a sales trend is.

Essentially, it is easy to see where anyone would see a huge room for exploitation here.
There was also a lot of room for exploitation pre-eBay. Sure you could find pawn shop bargains now and then but the pawn shops and music shops charged what they charged in the 90s and there was f**k all you could do about it. You would find ridiculously overpriced 80s super Strats because that's what the prices showed in the blue book. And they didn't have much peer to peer competition outside of local classifieds. If you wanted used you most likely had to depend on shop prices. Now prices are defined on eBay by the buyers rather than he sellers. Sure there are psychological phenomena that inflate prices in some cases. But they also hold them in check in others. And that phenomenon of the free market with psychological buying influences is what auctions are all about.
I disagree. I think the shift in the price trend may be dictated by the buyer overtime, but other than that the buyer has nothing to do with it really(except for the fact in vintage pieces the price goes up). See the opposite side of common place ebay buying at this time: 1)check average prices, 2)check average sold prices, 3) check out specific no namers for pseudo-would-be credibility, and eventually 4) calculate an average based on priced vs prices vs history 5) and then decide to buy based on preference. Price only matters to those who care about price. Point being, youre a cheap a*s or not.

This is what we all do. What I said previously plays in to this, making fun of the asshole who is trying to mark s**t down based on the 1 out of 10 sales that ended poorly for Mr Nobody who had d**k for feedback rating. Same goes for the same hypothetical prick who marks his s**t up based off what a "real seller" prices his well taken cared of(payed to be in tip top shape) instrument.

As for the psychological aspect of buying via ebay, yeah it happens. But only to crackhead ADD types. Check that CS80 on ebay right now, the only people with that kind of money arent f**k retarded. No Offense intended BTW

However, Im sure we all know what we consider a real price to be. If you dont have a clue, I got a pro one for 2500, want that s**t? :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Collecting, eBay and Synth Economics

Post by GuyaGuy » Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:05 am

phesago wrote:.

I disagree. I think the shift in the price trend may be dictated by the buyer overtime, but other than that the buyer has nothing to do with it really(except for the fact in vintage pieces the price goes up).
Buyers, not buyer. Pricing standards are crowd-sourced.

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Re: Collecting, eBay and Synth Economics

Post by c-level » Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:03 am

i think its funny nearly everyone in this post has bashed ebay prices, but still maintains the thrill of the find in thrift stores and the like, often dealing with a little repair and eventually selling off for an ebay comparable value either on ebay, here or craigslist. we all sound quite guilty of this inflation in some way or another ourselves, i understand we all gotta eat/starve and fund eurorack modules, but sounds like the only way for prices to go down is for everyone to collectively start giving each other deals or trades. cant have your cake (yard sale finds) and eat it too (ebay resells)

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Re: Collecting, eBay and Synth Economics

Post by Stab Frenzy » Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:34 am

I wish (more) collectors would get into collecting Eurorack, it's perfect for the collector (huge amount of variety, high cost/small size, fun to noodle around with without doing anything musical, blinking lights are fun) and a bigger market for Eurocrack means bigger runs from the tiny boutique manufacturers which benefits everybody. There isn't the nostalgic element to it though so I guess that's why it isn't more popular.
rschnier wrote:I collect somewhat, but for what people might think is a weird reason. I'm old enough to remember when many of these synths came out, and how much I wanted various ones at the time but had no chance of affording them at the prices they went for when they were new. But now, I can satisfy my gear-lust for these units, which in many cases are just as useful now as they were when they came out (if you know which units to acquire intelligently). Geez, I remember how much I wanted an Omni-2 back in the early '80s when they were current -- they were somewhere around $2500 if I remember right, and that was in 1980 dollars on a college student's income. Now I've got two, each of which I picked up on eBay for a couple hundred bucks, and all they needed was a little TLC to bring them back into operating condition. So the reason I collect is to satisfy the remembered desire to have and use, what I couldn't dream of having back at the time it was current in the market.
I think that's actually the usual reason people collect synths/guitars/sneakers/whatever, because they couldn't have something in their youth and they're making up for it in adulthood.

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Re: Collecting, eBay and Synth Economics

Post by Dr. Phibes » Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:31 am

I've come to the conclusion of late that I'm more of a collector. I use my synths sure, but I don't record music. But I like collecting... for as the The Scaredcrow said I'm afraid that if I don't have, people won't think I am!

But at least I keep them in good shape so they can still be used in future... so suck it! ;)
Last edited by Dr. Phibes on Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Collecting, eBay and Synth Economics

Post by rschnier » Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:11 pm

Stab Frenzy wrote:I think that's actually the usual reason people collect synths/guitars/sneakers/whatever, because they couldn't have something in their youth and they're making up for it in adulthood.
Mind you, I don't have them just to hang on a wall and view, I do actually use them :?
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Re: Collecting, eBay and Synth Economics

Post by redchapterjubilee » Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:03 pm

Normally I'm like Tallowwaters, if I'm not using it then it won't last in the house long. I'm kinda bare bones on synth stuff now, but I'm sitting on two drum kits, 6 guitars and three amp heads/cabinets at the moment. I can only gig one kit at a time, one amp at a time (though sometimes 2 when I want to be REALLY ornery) and really only need 2 guitars. For years I had to sell something if I wanted something else, and as a result I've let some good synths, guitars, drums, etc. go that I wish I still had. At the moment I'm not broke or in danger of going broke (FINALLY!) so I can hang on to this stuff, but I also know that at the first sign of financial trouble I've got several tiers of selloffs that will pare my collection back to only what I absolutely need.

I understand the collector mentality. I own it. If I had more discretionary cash then I'd be picking up a MiniMoog, a Prophet 5 or an OB-Xa or such...but alas I may have the money to afford these things in 2012 but only at 2002 prices! I've been priced out of the vintage synth market. Buying classic vintage analog is now like buying vintage guitar or drum gear. It's still out there, but it's being traded among people who know what it is now instead of people clearing out their attic or closets. The fire sale is pretty much over, and all of us that remember the fire sale period need to get over it.
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Re: Collecting, eBay and Synth Economics

Post by drawtippy » Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:19 pm

I'm certainly reliving my childhood through the synths I have "collected" over the years. They just so happen to be some of the greats. In the back of mind I needed to have the "Tom Sawyer" sound, or the lead from "Just what I needed", or the drums from "Da, Da, Da", or the trumpets from "Final Countdown", or the sounds from "Upstairs at Eric's".

Luckily, I've never paid crazy prices for anything, I think Craigslist in a bigger city, is a great way to find synths.
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Re: Collecting, eBay and Synth Economics

Post by V301H » Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:49 pm

Here is an economic side to things no one has brought up that must affect a good number of us here. I blame the US Government for much of my gear acquisition. Since the mid-80's I have been a full-time musician and need to spend a considerable amount each year relating to my musical activity. It's either that or pay a lot of taxes to the IRS. Last year I cut down a bit on buying gear and spent a lot more on repairs. I'm also employing that strategy this year although I will purchase a choice piece of gear when a great deal comes along. Also, because of the Government I do not sell any gear as I would have to claim that as income. I rent a climate-controlled storage unit close to home exclusively for storing music equipment which is also a tax write off.
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Re: Collecting, eBay and Synth Economics

Post by fh991586 » Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:52 pm

I have bought all my stuff on Craigslist, Kijiji and other local ads. Only one thing on eBay, and I finally didn't like it and never use it. I've never seen a really good occasion on the bay, but I know I can get great stuff anytime IF I want to pay top price.

I'm a collector. Simple as that. I like to play a little music, but I can't do much because I lack the will to fully invest myself in this hobby (I have others that prevail). Getting some little keys down with an arpeggiator is usually enough to keep me satisfied for a long time, so I've never learned a full piece for now (by ear or with a music sheet). I wish I could do more with what I already have, but I know I'll never be fully satisfied... Even if I get a Jupiter 8, or if I sell everything to start up another project. That's really a curse... But whenever I see a good occasion, I don't know why I should not seize it if I have the space and money for it. If I could do the maintenance myself, I'd rent them to musicians so that they could see more action, that's for sure.

But I'll always love music, and those synths are the next best thing I can do beside only listening to cds!
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Re: Collecting, eBay and Synth Economics

Post by walkathon » Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:05 pm

silikon wrote:Maybe...just maybe with the resurgence of modern analog machines, that may deflate the rapidly increasing prices, but I highly doubt it. I'm an architect, not an economics professional -- alot of those wishes are exactly that, me wishing the prices would drop so I could afford a few more choice pieces.
I recall an AH discussion circa whenever the A6 original hit the market, and (I think it was) Brian Kehew claiming the analogue market was gonna drop big because this new analog had hit the streets. Safe to say that didn't happen, and all of us here are probably clamoring for 2001-era prices ... slightly ironic (for lack of a better word) 'cause even THEN people were clamoring for 1991-era prices, etc.

Anyway, as others have similarly noted, I generally notice that the internal collector has taken over the musician simply whenever less music's being made. That's when I start to pare down, or at the very least, organize a subset of gear in a corner and stick to making music w/ that for a spell.

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Re: Collecting, eBay and Synth Economics

Post by Zamise » Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:02 am

Not sure how one can complain when they already have 100s of synths :?

Anyhow, I just got my second RS7000 woot. You haven't heard woot in a while I bet, woot woot. Includes AIEB2 expansion woooooooot!
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Re: Collecting, eBay and Synth Economics

Post by Stab Frenzy » Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:22 am

fh991586 wrote:I'm a collector. Simple as that. I like to play a little music, but I can't do much because I lack the will to fully invest myself in this hobby (I have others that prevail).
So you can spend thousands on synths that you don't really use but you can't 'fully invest yourself' in it? I don't understand that situation.

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Re: Collecting, eBay and Synth Economics

Post by silikon » Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:43 am

Alex E wrote:Jean Mitchell Jarre or whatever the f**k his f**k name is.
Image

:D :D
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