Wavetable vs Transwave Synthesis

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Re: Wavetable vs Transwave Synthesis

Postby balma » Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:03 pm

mharris80 wrote:Such a shame what Creative Labs did to Ensoniq.


Don´t know too much about the process, but Ensoniq and E-mu Systems were adquired by Creative Labs?

They just moved to a more reliable market. Bussiness.

Actually, there are some synths like the Halo wich says E-mu Ensoniq.

The Halo has several of Fizmo´s transwaves sampled (Q Rom) but obviously the realtime stuff is inoperant. Latest E-mu romplers have a little bit of Ensoniq inside....

I really miss Ensoniq and E´mu´s vision about synthesis, my first synth was a Ensoniq SQ1-plus on 1993. Sold it and got a TS-10. And my favorite synth is the E-mu Command Station, wich is a very singular rompler, not like any other in the rompler/worstation market. A rompler with a complex modulation matrix (96 patchcords per patch)
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Re: Wavetable vs Transwave Synthesis

Postby Ashe37 » Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:28 pm

Creative bought Ensoniq for their DOS PCI soundcard tech, not the synth stuff. Hence why they killed the synth stuff but literally sold the Ensoniq AudioPCI for another ten years.
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Re: Wavetable vs Transwave Synthesis

Postby impaler42 » Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:36 am

Anyone have any opinions on the Waldorf Microwave XTk as compared to the Fizmo? I know this is not a versus thread, but Im facing a difficult decision between these two lovely boards and I need to act quickly. I know some of the strengths of the XTk are the interpolation between waveforms, multi-stage filters for wave sequencing, and versatile modulation capabilities. Not sure if these two synths are apples and oranges, or whether they are largely capable of creating the same sounds. From a UI perspective, I know its much easier to program the XTk, given its knob laden interface.
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Re: Wavetable vs Transwave Synthesis

Postby impaler42 » Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:49 am

Ended up buying a Waldorf XTk. This thing is a beast! Might still pick up the Fizmo next week.
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Re: Wavetable vs Transwave Synthesis

Postby impaler42 » Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:55 am

Ended up picking up both a Microwave XTk and a Fizmo. Having done an A/B comparison, they are quite different beasts. I feel like the Fizmo has more of an ethereal, ambient sound whereas the XTk has a more aggressive sound that cuts through a mix. They complement each other well. The XTk is much more versatile, but I couldnt see myself letting go of either synth.
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Re: Wavetable vs Transwave Synthesis

Postby Ashe37 » Tue Jul 31, 2012 7:37 am

make sure the power regulator fix has been done to the fizmo
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Re: Wavetable vs Transwave Synthesis

Postby Sir Nose » Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:06 pm

Ashe37 wrote:make sure the power regulator fix has been done to the fizmo


Do not power it up even one more time till you are sure. Ticking time bomb.
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Re: Wavetable vs Transwave Synthesis

Postby tallowwaters » Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:29 pm

I'm kind of a wavetable w***e...

I've owned 3 Fizmos. One of the most beautiful sounding synths ever, but the most ludicrous to program. Having to use the travesty that is Sounddiver every time I wanted to edit (since the front panel interface is nothing but an incomplete joke) made it a pass every time.

I've owned 3 XT(k)s. Very different sounding, but a hands down awesome interface that blows the Blofeld away in immediacy.

A little known tip, you can replicate near any sound from the Fizmo on the Ensoniq TS10/12 series.

Some fun wavetable softsynths that use Fizmo patches as oscillators are STS and Protoplasm.
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Re: Wavetable vs Transwave Synthesis

Postby balma » Tue Jul 31, 2012 7:53 pm

I´m a Emu/Ensoniq w***e for that.
I had a TS10 as my only synth during a lot of time, my first one was a SQ1-plus.
Would love to get an ASR-10 or the ASRX little drummachine...
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Re: Wavetable vs Transwave Synthesis

Postby samuraipizzacat29 » Tue Jul 31, 2012 7:57 pm

having owned both, the difference to me is rather in the implementation than the core technology. There's debates online as to EXACTLY what's in the fizmo, but since only ensoniq/emu/creative knows, there's no value in debating. When you stack them up next to each other, the fizmo shines because ensoniq chose the wavetables/transwaves/whatever they are very well in that every sound morphs well into each other. A microwave xtk would allow you to do the exact same thing, the difference being the ability to change waves & wavetables. throw a bunch of wavetables into an xt and what you get isn't always pretty...... fizmo is, and is locked to be that way.

I don't really see how the fizmo transwaves can be "longer", which is the argument of many "they're not wavetables!" people since there's nothing to me that really sounds like it's any different. There's no sample loop points that are audible. The difference being that ensoniq hand picked and hardwired the transwaves so that (like the VSE page says) they evolve harmonically & timbrally rather than randomly. The result is a more pleasant sound. I don't know where I read that to support what the review page says, but I do remember reading something similar. could have just been from the page itself.... :facepalm:

why am i saying this? there's at least one guy taht has recreated the fizmo wavetables for the microwave xt. I'll see if i can get them or get him to post. I know he was on the yamaha dx list.....

edit: check out the files section of the fizmo yahoo group.
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Re: Wavetable vs Transwave Synthesis

Postby impaler42 » Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:25 pm

Ashe37 wrote:make sure the power regulator fix has been done to the fizmo


The person I bought it from replaced the power unit, so it should provide me with many years of service *crosses fingers*. Thanks for the concern guys!
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Re: Wavetable vs Transwave Synthesis

Postby Ashe37 » Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:49 pm

impaler42 wrote:
Ashe37 wrote:make sure the power regulator fix has been done to the fizmo


The person I bought it from replaced the power unit, so it should provide me with many years of service *crosses fingers*. Thanks for the concern guys!


the power supply, or the regulator?

the problem with fizmos is there is a specific component on the power supply that needs replacing/upgrading
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Re: Wavetable vs Transwave Synthesis

Postby samuraipizzacat29 » Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:09 pm

any 7805 regulator will work fine, the most common is an lm7805. easy to replace, but not recommended for the casual user. lots of sensitive dsp chips in there and one shock goes zap.

but, I came here to say I phoned a friend:

The difference between waldorf wavetable synthesis and the fizmo transwaves is that the waldorf takes the +side of the signal, duplicates it, and inverts it to make the negative side of the output AC wave. This is unnatural sounding as the + side of the phase isn't necessarily the same as the - side of the phase in acoustics. So, all microwave outputs are symmetrical. conversely, the fizmo outputs are made by using additive sine waves that are all through zero, perfect 360 degree phasing. this was found by recording the raw outputs, no filtering.

pretty cool piece of information imho. It's kinda like having a really sweet waveshaper on board. It's still unfortunate you're locked to all of the shapes that are there (there's always a complainer in the crowd isn't there :) )
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Re: Wavetable vs Transwave Synthesis

Postby Ashe37 » Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:46 pm

samuraipizzacat29 wrote: conversely, the fizmo outputs are made by using additive sine waves that are all through zero, perfect 360 degree phasing. this was found by recording the raw outputs, no filtering.


I assumed the transwaves were samples just like they were on every preceding Ensoniq transwave synth...
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Re: Wavetable vs Transwave Synthesis

Postby impaler42 » Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:00 pm

Ashe37 wrote:
impaler42 wrote:
Ashe37 wrote:make sure the power regulator fix has been done to the fizmo


The person I bought it from replaced the power unit, so it should provide me with many years of service *crosses fingers*. Thanks for the concern guys!


the power supply, or the regulator?

the problem with fizmos is there is a specific component on the power supply that needs replacing/upgrading


Both were replaced. I bought it for $1000, which is kind of steep. But its a rare board which is hard to find, and I hear these are going up in value.
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