Arpeggiator vs. chord repeater?

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vicd
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Arpeggiator vs. chord repeater?

Post by vicd » Tue Oct 02, 2012 5:44 pm

Hi there,
can anyone please tell me if any of the hardware synths you know has a chord repeater feature?
Maybe it has some another common name, which I'm not aware of.

So to say:
Arpeggiator: I hit and hold Cmaj (C-E-G), it plays me an arpeggio (a sequence of single notes like this: C,E,G,E,C), according to the currently selected arp pattern, tempo, etc. etc.

Chord repeater: I hit and hold Cmaj (C-E-G), it repeats the chord I've hit (playing a sequence of chord hits - [CEG],[CEG],[CEG] ), according to the currently set repeater pattern (which may be irregular, or composed of double-hits, trioles and so on), tempo, etc. etc.

So, any examples so far? Or do I miss something obvious?

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Re: Arpeggiator vs. chord repeater?

Post by masstronaut » Tue Oct 02, 2012 6:56 pm

The arpeggiator on some of the Waldorf synths will do this.

I think the Q / Micro-Q / Microwave II & XT and Blofeld.

Edit - if you've got an MP-7 have you tried using the arp in 'Pattern' mode? Not certain but I think it might do what you're looking for as well. And you can send that over MIDI. And you've got a Blofeld too? I think you're sorted for chord repeaters mate. ;)

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Re: Arpeggiator vs. chord repeater?

Post by vicd » Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:41 pm

Thanks man,
sorry looks I was too lazy to locate that myself.

So,
  • Blofeld does that off-the-shelf (manual page 78, "If Ⅎ chord is selected, the Arpeggiator plays a
    chord with all notes from the note list. This means that you have to play at least two notes to hear the
    effect. The note list is not advanced."
    . So you hold a chord, and Blo plays it in some custom rhythm pattern.
  • MP7 does not seem to provide this immediately (at least the manual is silent). However, the preset-level arps can act similar:
    - create a user pattern with zero key offset for all steps = just the same note playing all through the pattern;
    - then set the preset's arpeggiator to pattern mode and select your pattern;
    - play nicely repeating chords.

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Re: Arpeggiator vs. chord repeater?

Post by Purveyor » Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:54 pm

Novation ks series synths.

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Re: Arpeggiator vs. chord repeater?

Post by Z » Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:08 pm

Roland Fantom X series can do this if you program it (chord repeat to your specific pattern) using its built in arpeggiator.

The Boss SL-20 Slicer will produce a similar effect. If you hold a chord on your keyboard, the SL-20 will 'slice' this held chord into rhythms based on its built-in patterns. There is also an arpeggiator function that will play patterns of harmonics based on the held notes. I think I described that correctly.

Here's a video I made a couple of years ago.

[youtube][/youtube]

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Re: Arpeggiator vs. chord repeater?

Post by vicd » Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:33 pm

Z wrote:The Boss SL-20 Slicer will produce a similar effect. If you hold a chord on your keyboard, the SL-20 will 'slice' this held chord into rhythms based on its built-in patterns. There is also an arpeggiator function that will play patterns of harmonics based on the held notes. I think I described that correctly.
So basically, an external audio chopper (trance gate), and you retrigger/change the chords by hands, right?

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Re: Arpeggiator vs. chord repeater?

Post by balma » Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:41 pm

Don't get exactly the "chord repeater" term, but you mean, a way to retrigger quantized notes without using arpeggio?

Emu command stations/proteus 2500, using the sample start delay function , you can place up to 12 different sound/notes one after another, specifying the time intervales between each repetition, sync with the BMP or free run.
It has the same effect than using an arpeggio or a sequence.
You can also repeat notes, using the "retrigger" destination, located in the modulation matrix, or using the Clock dividers sources, and applying them to the volume of the samples, creating a similar effect. You can control the retriggering timing with LFOs, clock dividers, LFO retrigger, activating the repeat function (set to OFF by default) of the ADSR envelopes, sync them with the BPM, and then, programming the mod matrix.

Any of these note repeat tricks can be controlled in very detailed ways with the programmable knobs. Retriggering notes in intrincate ways, tweak them and modulate them with controllers is something the command station can do very well.

The "grain shifter" effect of the Korg electribes EMX1 and ESX1. This effect can also be applied to the Line Input.

the delay effect of the DSI Tempest behaves in a similar way....
Z wrote:The Boss SL-20 Slicer will produce a similar effect. If you hold a chord on your keyboard, the SL-20 will 'slice' this held chord into rhythms based on its built-in patterns. There is also an arpeggiator function that will play patterns of harmonics based on the held notes. I think I described that correctly.

The SLICER effect, is available inside dozens of synths with line in (SP808, 505, ALL the Korg Electribe models, Korg Radias, etc etc), turns on and off quantized segments (normally 16 steps on a measure) giving the feeling of a sequence. Works good with continuous sounds like pads, chopping them and adding bpm motion to the line in.

I love this kind of effect, but I like to have this stored as a patch function, and not having to use two synths to have the effect. IMO, the command station engine is maybe the most functional synth to create note repetitions, and without using the arppegiator. Infinite ways to do them and control them. And not mentioning the arppegiator is something special 8-)
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Re: Arpeggiator vs. chord repeater?

Post by vicd » Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:12 pm

Well, to make it clear, I'm not really looking for slicing/chopping constantly sounding notes, rather for more or less intelligent chord retriggering. So it keeps the original preset's envelopes etc.

Something like on the video below at 3:45 and further: arpeggio and latch modes are on, hit a chord - the machine plays memorized notes one-by-one. Then switch from arpeggio to chord repeat mode (3:48), and it now plays with whole chords.



I do actually have the same unit resting somewhere high on the shelves, but did not power it up for ages, should be already dead. And this box was the reason of my question - i still fail to find some similar straightforward implementation elsewhere (not counting looping/self-retriggering envelopes on some monosynths).

A typical pop application example I guess (the intro riff):

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Re: Arpeggiator vs. chord repeater?

Post by balma » Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:44 am

Use the Clock Dividers of the E-mu. The modulation matrix of this rompler is something to pay attention due to its enormous flexibility.

Enter the patchcord edition screens, and assign the clock dividers (located on the source list, left slot) to the SRETRIGG destination parameter.

Depending of wich clock divider you picked up, you can trigger repeat notes, no matter if chords or single notes, at 8/1, 4/1, 2/1, 1/1, 1/2, 1/4, 1/8 and 1/16 speeds. Leave the amount of the patchcord on 0. Then, program a knob to activate them. Just use MIDI A to MIDI P source controllers, and put on the destination the patchcord number (1-24) you programmed with the clock divider.

SRETRIGGER is a yes/no destination. So a +1 value amount will create a note retriggering while holding the key. You can retrigger notes on 8 different tempo values, using several knobs to control them.

Or you can use the LFOs to create complex note repetitions, sending the LFO to the SRETRIGGER destination.
33%, 25%, 16% and 12% pulse, Octaves, Sus4Trip and Fifth+Octves LFOs are suitable for such programing. They are LFOs wich work very well when sync to the BPM. For deeper modulations, use two different LFOs, or control the LFOrate speed, with another LFO. Leave those patchcords on zero, and use a knob to activate them.
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Re: Arpeggiator vs. chord repeater?

Post by masstronaut » Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:50 am

Dude - I think we already established you can just use the arp in Pattern mode.

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Re: Arpeggiator vs. chord repeater?

Post by vicd » Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:22 am

masstronaut wrote:Dude - I think we already established you can just use the arp in Pattern mode.
Yep; so now we're moving forward into the area of purely academic curiosity.

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Re: Arpeggiator vs. chord repeater?

Post by pflosi » Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:52 pm

A6 will do this with its sequencer and the chord function...

Probably most of the common DAW arp plugins (that can send out midi) should be able to do it as well.

Alternatively, I personally love to send a held chord through a filter with triggered env applied. Synths with external audio and external gate inputs will do this nicely, lots of fun on MS20 / 10, Acidlab Bassline2 and SH2 out of those I have. I actually just started an Eurorack processing modular to do mostly this (and additionally tons of other stuff). Not the cheapest option though ;)

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Re: Arpeggiator vs. chord repeater?

Post by Zamise » Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:18 pm

The Maestro's arp is a bit strange. If I remember right it only plays 4 notes, first note doesn't arp by itself, every note after will play up to 4, those below the lowest wont register until you let up on one instead of dropping the earlier notes. The higher notes will kick in if you press it as a 5th as long as it is higher than the previous lowest note but it takes over the lowest note and stays unsorted. Not sure I'm explaining well, but it is weird. Maybe that is normal on synths with a low poly count? As for the chord repeater, that is kind of unique too. Closest thing I could come to on my other gear was using a harmonizer and set the arp to off so it only repeats one note. The harmonizer I have only has two offsets and I'd need a third along with the note being played to replicate 4 notes like on the Maestro. That still isn't as dynamic because the other two notes are increased or decreased in static amounts from the arped note and they are always on where as you can let notes go or only do 2 or 3 or all 4 notes on the Maestro whenever you press them. The amounts on the harmonizer have to be adjusted incrementally for that, and that just doesn't work quite as well as being able to play the chord and have it repeat which ever notes you press. It is pretty close however. I think you can have an extremely sophisticated arpeggiator that will even play chords or multiple notes per step, and it still will not have that particular function like it does on the Mestro. The Maestro's arp is relatively simple, and just happens to have that chord repeat ability on it. Other synths can have it I suppose, but nothing else I own or know of can do it exactly like the Maestro's. The only other way was to use a square LFO on Amp and I could hold the chord down, but of course the envelopes won't reset, but pretty close replication. The simplest was to just keep tapping the notes manually, but problems with that is you probably will have hard time staying synced to the tempo and be a lot of strain on the fingers. You probably wont have the Maestro's arp synced to anything else either or be able to midi it up to chord repeat out to another synth, but it will stay somewhat in tempo with itself. Good luck lining or snycing it up with something else, it does have some sort of trigger, what looks like a midi input, but the proper cord for it goes to a quarter inch jack from that plug whatever that is for on the back of it. I don't have any more ideas than those and sorry for a wall of text.
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Re: Arpeggiator vs. chord repeater?

Post by pflosi » Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:59 pm

BTW, just remembered that the chord function on the Polysix will do this (in combination with the arp if you want) as well... Wasn't sure when I posted before whether it would just "arp" through the notes you pressed in the chord, but I now remember that it will repeat the chord, as you want. So basically the same as on the A6 with chord function and the sequencer (with the arp on the A6, it WILL "arp" through the notes in the chord, but not with the sequencer).

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Re: Arpeggiator vs. chord repeater?

Post by skizzle » Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:29 pm

Edit: misread op.
Akai AX-80 as a chord memory.

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