I Dream of Wires

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Re: I Dream of Wires

Post by syntheticsolutions » Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:48 pm

Automatic Gainsay wrote: Hey, genius... if you're going to decry me for wanting Bob to be involved, don't quote my quote about Buchla. While he is involved in modern production of modular devices, the video FEATURES HIS ORIGINAL WORK. Jesus Christ.

But as I pointed out when the first trailer was released... there are ALL KINDS of historical modulars in the movie. In fact, they featured historical artists talking about historical modulars. It may very well be about the "resurgence," but if it's ONLY about the resurgence, it would ONLY include modern modulars... which is not the case at all. And you undoubtedly know it.

Also, as is PLAINLY apparent, I'm not suggesting it has to be ABOUT Bob Moog. But to (at least initially) not mention Bob Moog at all is absolutely ridiculous.

If you'd like to learn about the history of modular synthesis, I can help you. While Don Buchla independently applied control voltage in ways that suited his intent, the portrayal associated with his application is not accurate. Bob Moog created the current modular paradigm, even if the sequencer wasn't a part of his and Herb's vision.

If you're going to complain about the prevalence of Bob Moog, you should really go back to who essentially invented control voltage-based modular synthesis... and wasn't Bob or Don. But you'd rather argue other things, I suspect.

The Moog movie wasn't about synthesizers or history. It was about the man. There is SO MUCH historically that isn't in that movie.

Should "I dream of wires" be about Bob? h**l no. It is, as you b***h, about the modern resurgence. But should Bob be mentioned, described, and credited if they're going to talk about history or feature vintage devices and artists? Well, f**k obviously. :idea:
WOW, that was a bit of an unnecessary explosion :lol: Calm down dude, people are entitled to opinions especially when everyone on this thread except you has expressed them politely.

Anyhow... I am really looking forward to this documentary, real nice length too!
I have quite a few friends now that are either well into or starting to get involved with modern modulars. There is definitely a place for documentation within this specialist craze, hopefully it will have a solid structure and feature loads of interesting people offering their opinions on the subject (politely) and not just deadmou5 showing how spending £200000 can produce a 'bleep' sound. I am sure Vince will have something interesting to say :D
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Re: I Dream of Wires

Post by Automatic Gainsay » Thu Feb 21, 2013 3:28 am

:::sighs::::

Yeah, you guys are right. I don't know what I was thinking.

It's just that we contacted the makers of the film and talked to them about it, and they said...

Oh, wait. Nevermind. I don't want to offend or confuse anyone with the facts.

I was crazy and out of line.
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Re: I Dream of Wires

Post by Stab Frenzy » Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:14 am

You're welcome to share any facts you want with us, just don't be such a massive drama queen about it and don't keep attacking people for no reason. :thumbleft:

Are you trying to hint that you contacted the filmmakers and they didn't want to talk to you because they don't think Bob is that important? Is that why you're so anti this movie?

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Re: I Dream of Wires

Post by Automatic Gainsay » Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:33 am

I attack you because you are so quick to mock based upon your perception. But other than that, you know I love you.

No. We contacted the makers of the film early on when their initial trailers had no mention of Bob, but had plenty of seminal synthesists, engineers, and devices. They were glad to talk to us. They told us that their intention WAS to include Bob, but that they had only talked to West Coast people at that point. They told us that they respected and admired Bob, and that they WANTED to include him.

I just thought that was not particularly adequate journalism... especially since, at that time, they were getting donations.

P.S. I'm not some douchebag just wishing the internet thought as I do. This stuff is my job, and the accurate history of this stuff is important.
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Re: I Dream of Wires

Post by minime123 » Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:45 am

cant wait to see this, gonna pre-order it.
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Re: I Dream of Wires

Post by zoomtheline » Thu Feb 21, 2013 6:10 am

Automatic Gainsay wrote:This stuff is my job, and the accurate history of this stuff is important.
But it's not about the history. They touch upon it in the trailer and bob's name is the first name mentioned and if I'm not mistaken (can't remember) is the only name mentioned in that history segment. Just because there is no moog representative in the trailer does not mean that there is no respect for moog. There were images of the moog modular in there and many other ones too.... No other name gets dropped and machines don't get mentioned by name particularly. ( I may be wrong as I watched it hours ago and have a rubbish memory)

You made moog look a little bitter about this, not just yourself but I understand your angle, it's just that it's a little unrealistic, especially since you have not see the full length yet.

*No beef*

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Re: I Dream of Wires

Post by tekkentool » Thu Feb 21, 2013 7:55 am

zoomtheline wrote: You made moog look a little bitter about this
But he doesn't work for Moog. FOUNDATION PEOPLE, FOUNDATION!

(actually the secret's out, AG works in a secret underground chinese sweatshop putting the knobs on voyagers ;) )

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Re: I Dream of Wires

Post by bouzoukijoe1 » Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:46 am

all I know is they better talk about East Coast vs. West Coast synthesis, keyboard vs. anti-keyboard, tonal vs. atonal modular synth music in this film, because you know, that's the interesting stuff. :)

the ironic thing in modular however, is that so many people keep looking for that "Moog sound" which I think is crazy (and I assume they mean Minimoog not the Moog modular). I can't believe it especially in eurorack when there's so much more interesting West Coast stuff going on, but people still try to look for the sound of fixed architecture vintage keyboard synths. I feel utterly divided sometimes when it comes to filter talk especially.

not just Minimoog either, now the weird thing is that various other keyboard synth circuit designs are appearing in euro like the Korg35 filter design, Jupiter 6/SH-101 filter, SH-101 style sub-octave oscillators... I mean, I love that the designers are actually making these things, but it's weird when users actually expect them to sound identical to the vintage versions. every other week there's a new thread where someone's looking for a vintage keyboard sounding oscillator too.

I suppose there are some justified comparisons to vintage Moog Modular or "analog vs. digital" oscillators, but the comparisons between analog fixed architecture synths vs. new analog modular I don't quite get.

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Re: I Dream of Wires

Post by zoomtheline » Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:38 am

tekkentool wrote:
zoomtheline wrote: You made moog look a little bitter about this
But he doesn't work for Moog. FOUNDATION PEOPLE, FOUNDATION!
Automatic Gainsay wrote:This stuff is my job, and the accurate history of this stuff is important.
This makes it sound like he does, and he did though didn't he? or something to do with Moog somewhere?

Oh well, i'm not going to pry.

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Re: I Dream of Wires

Post by SSquirrel » Thu Feb 21, 2013 6:43 pm

zoomtheline wrote:This makes it sound like he does, and he did though didn't he? or something to do with Moog somewhere?

Oh well, i'm not going to pry.
He doesnt' work for Moog Music, the company producing keyboards. He works for the Moog Foundation, the non-profit organization. http://moogfoundation.org/

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Re: I Dream of Wires

Post by Computer Controlled » Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:30 am

Really? Not enough Moog? This is only a 12 min trailer, where Moog is clearly mentioned. There is a TON more footage. Maybe if Moog got off their asses and got back into modular systems instead of concentrating on API modules, guitars and the same signal path, they may have had more time. But, i understand your bias.
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Re: I Dream of Wires

Post by Automatic Gainsay » Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:33 pm

Computer Controlled wrote:Really? Not enough Moog? This is only a 12 min trailer, where Moog is clearly mentioned. There is a TON more footage. Maybe if Moog got off their asses and got back into modular systems instead of concentrating on API modules, guitars and the same signal path, they may have had more time. But, i understand your bias.
I'm not referring to THIS trailer. Yes, obviously, it has a fair amount of Moog-mention (yep... even though it is ONLY about what is happening RIGHT NOWWWWWWW). I'm talking about their first trailer.
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Re: I Dream of Wires

Post by s o l v e n t » Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:14 pm

Hi,

This is Jason, IDOW's producer... Automatic Gainsay, I'm going to address some of your points and concerns:

- IDOW's focus is on the resurgence of modular synthesizers. To say that the resurgence is the film's *focus* is not the same as saying "we will exclusively cover newly manufactured synths & contemporary artists that use them"... Of course, vintage modulars including Moogs show up in the film, and are discussed where it makes sense to do so. Moog came up a whole lot, regardless of the fact that we didn't pursue interviews with a lot of key people in the early days of Moog. Moog is a huge part of the story of modular synthesizers today, and this is addressed sufficiently in the film, IMO. But it's really best not to think of IDOW as a textbook on the history of modular synthesizers, because if you do, you will be disappointed. If Moog Music was more involved in the contemporary modular synthesizer revival, we would've covered Moog a lot more, considering that is IDOW's focus.

- You say that we spoke to you early on... That's very possible, but keep in mind that I have literally spoken to many, many hundreds of people over the course of making IDOW - some conversations get lost in the shuffle - there are literally 2 of us working on this film, handling absolutely everything. But just because we may have lost touch with you, doesn't mean that we have abandoned covering Moog in our film. It is also worth mentioning that, depending on when we were in touch, the film's focus did change at one point -- initially (before I became involved, and this was where the initial trailer came from) it was just about "modular synthesizers" but after a while it became obvious that this subject was too vast to cover in a single film, and so the focus shifted to "the resurgence of modular synthesizers".

- Despite what you may have concluded from the various trailers and videos that we have posted online, there is actually a very wonderful (IMO) 1-hour 'history of the modular synthesizer' primer included in the 4-hour "I Dream Of Wires: Hardcore Edition" cut. It is essential 40% on Moog, 40% on Buchla, and 20% on the others. We have a few great interviews that touch on this stuff, but we are also using narration and archival photos, for this section. We've been using photos pulled from the internet, and will soon be contacting Michelle Moog-Koussa about getting clearances on what we need - she already told us that she will give us access to any photos that we need. Here's something I wrote and published on our Facebook page, which you must've missed:

IDOW-HE opens with an hour-long historical primer, that has been removed entirely from the theatrical version. This section focuses primarily on the developing years of R.A. Moog Co. and Buchla & Associates Inc., and also covers their subsequent impact, influence, and the eventual decline of the modular synthesizer. Robert completed this segment of the film several weeks ago, and I can tell you that I watched it and was totally glued to the screen; an hour flew by in what seemed like 15 minutes.

- I should also add that this 1-hour historical segment will be reduced to a minutes-long soundbite into in the 85-minute theatrical cut... And so we will be following up IDOW with a follow-up film on the history of modular synthesizers, and using this 1-hour primer as the basis and selling point to get some proper funding to cover research and to speak to some of the key figures of that era.

- Last point - regarding Paul Schreiber's comment about Moog... That is his opinion, and frankly we love the fact that not everyone feels the same way about everything. Again, this film is not a textbook on the history of modular synthesizers, and so we are not presenting Paul's comment as a fact -- it is an opinion, and the film is full of them -- That's what makes this scene and subculture so exciting, and why we wanted to make a film about it.

thanks,

Jason

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Re: I Dream of Wires

Post by s o l v e n t » Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:39 pm

One more point AG:

You mention being critical of the initial trailer for it's lack of Moog.... Here is a little-known fact about that:

That first trailer wasn't even meant to be seem by the public! (We're glad that it did become public, because I don't know how things would've developed if it hadn't)... Robert made it as a tool to show potential artists and people that we wanted to interview, just to show them the quality and mood of the project... He sent a link to MATRIXSYNTH, just to sort of let him know about the project, but MATRIX missed the part about it being a private video and shard it on MATRIXSYNTH, and it just took off from there and so Robert made the video public.

With this in mind, there is really no reason to criticize the initial trailer for what it doesn't cover, as it wasn't made to show to the public or to be taken as a representation of what the film was going to encompass.

Jason

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Re: I Dream of Wires

Post by Automatic Gainsay » Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:49 am

Hey, Jason!

Thank you for setting the record straight. That is some great information.

The "we talked to them" I was talking about was actually The Bob Moog Foundation. I work with Michelle. So, when you contact her, there's a chance you might be talking to me, too. As that is where I work, you can understand why representation of Bob Moog is important to me, and perhaps you'll understand my motivation for making sure that if historical elements are referenced, his staggering contribution to the technology and history is present. She will be delighted with your interest.

It's not my intent to undermine your work. As a person who has been observing your progress, I recognize the incredible amount of effort you've put into it. In addition to that, you've interviewed a lot of my friends. I am not against your work, I just want to make sure that my main man, and the guy who, at least from a marketing standpoint, started it all is effectively represented! The initial trailer was actually nice... but you know, when I see Morton talking about Buchlas without even one shot of anything Moog, I have to represent. :)

I know you've interviewed a bazillion people... but it might not hurt to add an interview Peer Bode about his dad... the guy who was the first to put "voltage-controlled" "modular" and "synthesizer" together. :) I know, I know, it's not about the history.
But still.

Anyway. Everyone on the internet who has an interest in modular is pretty excited about this film. You don't need to address my now-unfounded complaints. :)

As for Paul Schrieber's comment about Moog... I know that's not your fault. It's just sad in combination with the other things. In my vocation, you can understand when such things might chap my hide.

"With this in mind, there is really no reason to criticize the initial trailer for what it doesn't cover, as it wasn't made to show to the public or to be taken as a representation of what the film was going to encompass."
Fair enough.
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