I Dream of Wires

[JayEm]

This whole argument reminds me of the old "[insert 90s alternative band here] owes nothing to Nirvana or their success. Nirvana is unimportant." BS that tends to pop up whenever people discuss the group.

Moog Music may have nothing to do with modern modular systems today (which itself is debateable, the MoogerFooger line is designed to integrate into varied systems, modular or not) but that doesn't mean RA Moog modules and their contribution to history and the influence on the current scene are somehow unimportant.

I agree with you that the film doesn't need to represent Moog all throughout, however your approach at communicating this leaves something to be desired.

Also, I don't know Mr. Marc Doty, just have a general feel of the dude from his posts here, and the personality he displays via the demo videos he FREELY contributes to anyone who is interested in watching, and I highly doubt he was insinuating anything about your brother in his earlier post. You're trying to make this personal.
You should also be aware that autism doesn't fall under the category of mental retardation.

[s o l v e n t]

Moog Music may have nothing to do with modern modular systems today (which itself is debateable, the MoogerFooger line is designed to integrate into varied systems, modular or not) but that doesn't mean RA Moog modules and their contribution to history and the influence on the current scene are somehow unimportant.

The good news is, Moog is covered rather extensively in the Hardcore Edition cut of the film. So if you think Moog is important and should be covered thoroughly, we've got that covered. Alternately, if you think the subject of Moog is played out, you just need to hit fast forward through that part...

Everybody happy!

http://idreamofwires.org/order

[CZ Rider]

I sense a disturbance in the force !

This thread needs more RA Moog modules.

[suitandtieguy]

it was the first (& only, TBH) video I could think of with a Dotcom-dominated system, that didn't sound like an homage to 70s electronic music.

this video has 1.2 million views. it is _the_ top-rated modular synthesizer video on u-toob:

[Automatic Gainsay]

Anyways guys... As much as I wish this thread about IDOW wasn't the cause of so much mud slinging, it is not surprising considering the passionate nature of modular synthesizer users. I think Moog lovers will be very satisfied with our 1-hour introduction in the Hardcore Edition, so if that history is important to you, make sure you get in an order for the Hardcore Edition, because that stuff will be completely cut from the theatrical version of IDOW.

Well, thanks for your comments and your addressing of various things. I watched the "hardcore edition" trailer today, and of course, was totally happy with what I saw. Yeah, I don't agree with everything everyone says, but people have different views and different applications, which I think is what you're getting at. I think it's going to be a fascinating film, and I look forward to seeing it. Thank you for a well-rounded portrayal, even if the focus is modern.

I still think you should have put STG in it, though.

[Automatic Gainsay]

"Retarded" is a term that has lost its connection to the pathetic and totally clinically worthless "medical" term of "retardation" long ago. There is no such thing as "retardation."

However, I am sensitive to people who struggle with, or have family who struggles with, down syndrome... and I want to be clear that I refuse to apply this term to people in that situation. It is a casual term without reference. If it is offensive, then for that I'm sorry. But then again, this is a casual forum where people say all kinds of offensive things. Most of the people I know here are good people who say what they think, and very few of them are cruel, insensitive, or harbor unkindness.

As for Austism: There is not one single parallel between Autism and Down Syndrome. I don't give a s**t who called an autistic person "retarded." It's not the same thing, and if you have a family member who is on the Autism Spectrum, you should stop classifying them in that fashion, or giving credence to claims which have no scientific merit.

Most of all, you can suck my d**k. My son is "developmentally delayed," and on the Autism Spectrum, and there is a very good chance (although currently undiagnosed) that I exist on that spectrum as well.

Stop trying to generate ways to condemn people you don't agree with. It's embarrassing.

[s o l v e n t]

I still think you should have put STG in it, though.

We were trying to schedule an interview at NAMM... why did that not work out mr STG? I think it was because your attending wasn't confirmed until pretty last minute? I don't remember exactly... We had our time booked up solid at NAMM - I only had about an hour to walk around and check stuff out - the rest was in our hotel room interviewing. But yeah I agree it's too bad we didn't get an interview with with STG - would've been great!

[Dr. Phibes]

All this bickering and feuding... is this what Don Buchla would have wanted?*

I know bugger all about modular synths, but if the 'softcore' version is all about the modern scene then sure, only a brief historical intro is necessary. I think it's cool that there's a longer version that covers more of that kind of stuff though. A couple of people have said that a historical overview isn't necessary because it's already been done to death; I'm not so sure. Quite by accident I came across a copy of the book Analog Days recently and was pleasantly surprised to find out that there was much I didn't know about origins of the synthesiser. Sure, I may be hopelessly ignorant, but a lot of the stuff one finds in the internet does tend to be pretty cursory.

Incidentally, I'm definitely going to order myself a DVD now, so your relentless advertising has worked solvent - you corporate fat cat




*Maybe it is; he is waaaay over 30 after all and therefore not to be trusted.

[Stab Frenzy]

"Retarded" is a term that has lost its connection to the pathetic and totally clinically worthless "medical" term of "retardation" long ago. There is no such thing as "retardation."

To retard something is to slow it down or hinder it, developmental retardation means exactly the same thing as developmentally delayed, it's just that the first ended up with a stigma attached to it so it's no longer used.

Either way, there are people who will get upset if you use the word retarded regardless of what you mean. I believe that you could use the word 'keytarded' to convey what you meant, ie someone who has made questionable choices that you disagree with, like this guy:

[plikestechno]

"Retarded" is a term that has lost its connection to the pathetic and totally clinically worthless "medical" term of "retardation" long ago. There is no such thing as "retardation."

However, I am sensitive to people who struggle with, or have family who struggles with, down syndrome... and I want to be clear that I refuse to apply this term to people in that situation. It is a casual term without reference. If it is offensive, then for that I'm sorry. But then again, this is a casual forum where people say all kinds of offensive things. Most of the people I know here are good people who say what they think, and very few of them are cruel, insensitive, or harbor unkindness.

As for Austism: There is not one single parallel between Autism and Down Syndrome. I don't give a s**t who called an autistic person "retarded." It's not the same thing, and if you have a family member who is on the Autism Spectrum, you should stop classifying them in that fashion, or giving credence to claims which have no scientific merit.

Most of all, you can suck my d**k. My son is "developmentally delayed," and on the Autism Spectrum, and there is a very good chance (although currently undiagnosed) that I exist on that spectrum as well.

Stop trying to generate ways to condemn people you don't agree with. It's embarrassing.

Ah AG, the expert on everything.

I was going to take this to PM but I think there's an important public service announcement to be made for anyone that thinks using the word "retarded" or "retard" is ok. My brother (born 1972, I'm 1974) is severely autistic. He can't speak, everything is too loud for his ears, he makes lots of shrieks and grunts and is pretty twitchy and jumpy. Additionally he has very severe epilepsy.

The late 70s and early 80s were a much different place than now for people with issues like my brother, down syndrome etc. Most kids were left at the hospital and never came home, going to institutions. Those that did come home had very little to no support from government and the community around them as things were either being discovered on ignored.

It doesn't matter about dictionary definitions that the most popular insult by far for my brother was "retard". From the kids and (shamefully) adults in our neighborhood, at the mall, at swimming pools. All day, every day. The school my brother went was commonly referred to in our city as "the retard school". I'm sure this was the case in most cities at that time.

My sister and I were constantly getting in fights, defending my brother. Mad that my mom would privately be so upset about everything and that word didn't help.

It's simply not a nice word to say, there are a lot of negative emotions and experiences attached to that word and there are so many other words you could have used. But it seems that neither of us thinks much before speaking.

I was already tired enough of you on here, then there was your insensitive post on the first page of this thread and then your further poorly thought out comments boiled me over. I'm sorry to everyone else it looked so bad.

In a PM you sent me you asked why I thought that you were tarnishing the Moog Foundation by being associated with it.

You must not have worked for a lot of corporations or non-profit groups. I have been associated with some non-profits over the years and work in the corporate world as well. People are free to say whatever they want on the internet but it's important to not tie these professional connections to your opinions as most organizations really frown upon it. Where you think you are more entitled to opinions now because of your association and use your association quite aggressively against others on this board. If I was running the Moog Foundation you'd be disassociated from it. Even before this thread started really. As a foundation that relies on donations, none of this in here with you acting on their behalf helps.

It's not like you're the only person to ever play keyboards but you sure act like it in lots of threads on these boards. Since you've become associated with the Moog Foundation your feelings of superiority when it comes to sound and synthesizers has become even more unbearable and won't help you in the industry which you obviously love so much and want to become a more prominent presence in.

Not that you care. Keep on, keeping on, king of synthesizers.

[Automatic Gainsay]

Ah AG, the expert on everything.

I hereby bequeath my title of "King of Synthesis" to plikestechno... in its entirety, and all of the benefits associated.

Now you can explain to everyone about harmonics, and how functionality doesn't matter as long as you have enough control over the harmonic series.

And.... go!

P.S. You can take my job, too.
As long as you know anything about the history of synthesis.

P.P.S. Synthesis started a few years before OMD hit the scene.

[plikestechno]

I'm sorry would be nice. I'm fine with you being the king of synthesizers and expert on what should be in everybody else's synthesizer films. Good for you.

[sensorium]

The "expert of everything". Isn't that the truth. So annoying.

[tekkentool]

"Retarded" is a term that has lost its connection to the pathetic and totally clinically worthless "medical" term of "retardation" long ago. There is no such thing as "retardation."

However, I am sensitive to people who struggle with, or have family who struggles with, down syndrome... and I want to be clear that I refuse to apply this term to people in that situation. It is a casual term without reference. If it is offensive, then for that I'm sorry. But then again, this is a casual forum where people say all kinds of offensive things. Most of the people I know here are good people who say what they think, and very few of them are cruel, insensitive, or harbor unkindness.

As for Austism: There is not one single parallel between Autism and Down Syndrome. I don't give a s**t who called an autistic person "retarded." It's not the same thing, and if you have a family member who is on the Autism Spectrum, you should stop classifying them in that fashion, or giving credence to claims which have no scientific merit.

Most of all, you can suck my d**k. My son is "developmentally delayed," and on the Autism Spectrum, and there is a very good chance (although currently undiagnosed) that I exist on that spectrum as well.

Stop trying to generate ways to condemn people you don't agree with. It's embarrassing.

Ah AG, the expert on everything.

I was going to take this to PM but I think there's an important public service announcement to be made for anyone that thinks using the word "retarded" or "retard" is ok. My brother (born 1972, I'm 1974) is severely autistic. He can't speak, everything is too loud for his ears, he makes lots of shrieks and grunts and is pretty twitchy and jumpy. Additionally he has very severe epilepsy.

The late 70s and early 80s were a much different place than now for people with issues like my brother, down syndrome etc. Most kids were left at the hospital and never came home, going to institutions. Those that did come home had very little to no support from government and the community around them as things were either being discovered on ignored.

It doesn't matter about dictionary definitions that the most popular insult by far for my brother was "retard". From the kids and (shamefully) adults in our neighborhood, at the mall, at swimming pools. All day, every day. The school my brother went was commonly referred to in our city as "the retard school". I'm sure this was the case in most cities at that time.

My sister and I were constantly getting in fights, defending my brother. Mad that my mom would privately be so upset about everything and that word didn't help.

It's simply not a nice word to say, there are a lot of negative emotions and experiences attached to that word and there are so many other words you could have used. But it seems that neither of us thinks much before speaking.

I was already tired enough of you on here, then there was your insensitive post on the first page of this thread and then your further poorly thought out comments boiled me over. I'm sorry to everyone else it looked so bad.

In a PM you sent me you asked why I thought that you were tarnishing the Moog Foundation by being associated with it.

You must not have worked for a lot of corporations or non-profit groups. I have been associated with some non-profits over the years and work in the corporate world as well. People are free to say whatever they want on the internet but it's important to not tie these professional connections to your opinions as most organizations really frown upon it. Where you think you are more entitled to opinions now because of your association and use your association quite aggressively against others on this board. If I was running the Moog Foundation you'd be disassociated from it. Even before this thread started really. As a foundation that relies on donations, none of this in here with you acting on their behalf helps.

It's not like you're the only person to ever play keyboards but you sure act like it in lots of threads on these boards. Since you've become associated with the Moog Foundation your feelings of superiority when it comes to sound and synthesizers has become even more unbearable and won't help you in the industry which you obviously love so much and want to become a more prominent presence in.

Not that you care. Keep on, keeping on, king of synthesizers.

[JayEm]

I hereby declare this thread "derailed".

Haha, AG, dude, you're correct that retardation isn't really used any more in a medical sense, however, not everyone who has a developmental issue has downs syndrome. Thats its own thing. My own older brother is mentally retarded (the new fangled pc medical term escapes me) and does not have downs. He's just Kevin.