Korg MS-20 Mini

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sequentialsoftshock
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Re: Korg Mini MS-20

Post by sequentialsoftshock » Sat Jan 26, 2013 7:24 am

A lot of you enjoy being out of tune then ?

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Re: Korg Mini MS-20

Post by bouzoukijoe1 » Sat Jan 26, 2013 7:57 am

burnsjed wrote:What do you make of this?
Back and smaller than ever, Korg's MS-20 mini analog synthesizer revives the legendary MS-20 synth in all of its glory, but at 86% of the original size. This is no copycat knockoff either - the MS-20 mini is nearly identical to the original, with the same analog oscillators (now digitally stabilized), first-generation filters, and a VCA that's been tweaked to reduce noise. You'll also find cool new additions, including an External Signal Processor for your mics and instruments, MIDI In, and even USB connectivity, onboard the Korg MS-20 mini.

Sweetwater
"now digitally stabilized"

holy troll bait. it's not even out yet. this isn't even worth discussing unless there is a point to be made.

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Re: Korg Mini MS-20

Post by tekkentool » Sat Jan 26, 2013 9:16 am

sequentialsoftshock wrote:A lot of you enjoy being out of tune then ?
Well obviously, one time I was tricked into playing a synthesizer that to my horror had DCO's, I compensated for the lack of analogue drift which as we know, turns water into wine among other qualities so I compensated by playing in a completely different scale to the rest of the track.

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Re: Korg Mini MS-20

Post by Hybrid88 » Sat Jan 26, 2013 11:00 am

Good vid here; :)


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Re: Korg Mini MS-20

Post by Bitexion » Sat Jan 26, 2013 2:21 pm

tekkentool wrote:
sequentialsoftshock wrote:A lot of you enjoy being out of tune then ?
Well obviously, one time I was tricked into playing a synthesizer that to my horror had DCO's, I compensated for the lack of analogue drift which as we know, turns water into wine among other qualities so I compensated by playing in a completely different scale to the rest of the track.
Just add a few sharp and flat notes in the scales and chords, and when the band asks wtf you've been smoking, you can say you're emulating old analog synths, no worries, it will only make the music more hip and edgy.

One particular hit is to add ferocious beating in a lead sound, and later apologize that it's a vintage synth so it can have it's own life sometimes. Even if it's a brand new Korg.

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Re: Korg Mini MS-20

Post by Arddhu » Sat Jan 26, 2013 2:28 pm

Wow, really cutting deep with these witticisms...

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Re: Korg Mini MS-20

Post by masstronaut » Sat Jan 26, 2013 2:35 pm

For people interested in controlling this (in tune...) from V/Oct systems, I wonder if Korg will be doing something like a cut-down MS-02, or even a straight re-ish.

Also, I see this interesting post on electro-music, quoting an older post on korganalogue.net. Just posting here for reference should anyone find it useful.

http://www.electro-music.com/forum/topic-28113.html
phinland wrote:Are you aware that the MS20 will take a log input and convert itself to lin without any conversion?

Citing from http://www.korganalogue.net/korgms/mstt.html

"I can hardly believe no one knows about this already. It is possible to control an MS-20 from a V/Octave keyboard or MIDI/CV converter without a special interface. If you don't believe it, try it . .

When I first got my MS-20, I noticed that the filters don't track the keyboard at all. I plugged the keyboard cv to the filter cv in, but then the filter tracked the keyboard slowly in the lower octave, then went screeching off in search of tweeters to kill! I soon realised that the filter was tracking exponentially. I looked at the schematics and sure enough, both the VCO's and the VCF's have exponential converters on the modulation inputs. (You can tell this is the case, because the synth also goes radically out of tune when you plug the kbd cv to the TOTAL input, and wind up the MG / T.EXT knob in the FM section.)So, if you stick a V/OCT input into the modulation inputs and adjust the MG level for correct scaling, it all works and the filters track too.

Here's how you do it:

1. Plug the performance wheel into the keyboard cv input (middle, right) to disconnect the keyboard.
2. Plug the V/OCT cv from your MIDI/cv converter or another synth into the Total jack (top left).
3. Plug the s-trig. from your MIDI/cv or synth into the MS-20 trigger input.
4. Play a note on your MIDI keyboard or the controlling synth, and adjust the MS-20 performance wheel until you get a sensible pitch.
5. Adjust the VCO mod. levels until playing an octave on your MIDI (or other synth) keyboard gives an octave out of the MS-20. Then adjust the MS-20 performance wheel to coarse tune the MS20 and use the tuning pot to fine tune it.
6. The filter mod level pots adjust filter tracking in the same way.

You lose use of the performance wheel on the MS-20, but that's not a big problem if your MIDI/cv converter or your other synth has pitch bend. You will need a v-to-s trigger converter (i.e. the MS-02 Interface) to control the MS-20 from synths without s-trig. outputs, but they're simple to make (two resistors and an NPN transistor, plenty of circuits posted elsewhere).

I don't have the MS-20 in front of me, so apologies if the names of pots and jacks are not exact. Believe me, it does work!"

(from Steve Ridley)

Somebody else added:

"Beware of one thing... the VCF's are twice as sensitive as VCO's so that you must bring the VCF's mod pots to about 5 where as you would have the VCO's mod pot to 10. I think this can confuse some people the first time they fool around... Actually, if one wants good VCF tracking one has to be careful in trimming..."
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Re: Korg Mini MS-20

Post by burnsjed » Sat Jan 26, 2013 4:02 pm

Stab Frenzy wrote:
burnsjed wrote:What do you make of this?
Back and smaller than ever, Korg's MS-20 mini analog synthesizer revives the legendary MS-20 synth in all of its glory, but at 86% of the original size. This is no copycat knockoff either - the MS-20 mini is nearly identical to the original, with the same analog oscillators (now digitally stabilized), first-generation filters, and a VCA that's been tweaked to reduce noise. You'll also find cool new additions, including an External Signal Processor for your mics and instruments, MIDI In, and even USB connectivity, onboard the Korg MS-20 mini.

Sweetwater
I think that it means a bunch of people will latch onto this as a reason why the new MS-20 sucks and the old one is amazing, not realising that VCO synths have had various forms of digital stabilisation all the way back to the Prophet 5. :thumbright:

The note CV is coming from a digital source if you're playing it from midi or the keyboard, so having a digital counter circuit on the osc outputs that can periodically check if they're way out of tune and then alter the CV output scaling is not going to make the VCOs sound bad.
Thanks Stab Frenzy, seemed an odd comment by Sweetwater, thank you for clearing that up, I had already pre-ordered it yesterday was genuinely interested

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Re: Korg Mini MS-20

Post by burnsjed » Sat Jan 26, 2013 4:04 pm

bouzoukijoe1 wrote:
burnsjed wrote:What do you make of this?
Back and smaller than ever, Korg's MS-20 mini analog synthesizer revives the legendary MS-20 synth in all of its glory, but at 86% of the original size. This is no copycat knockoff either - the MS-20 mini is nearly identical to the original, with the same analog oscillators (now digitally stabilized), first-generation filters, and a VCA that's been tweaked to reduce noise. You'll also find cool new additions, including an External Signal Processor for your mics and instruments, MIDI In, and even USB connectivity, onboard the Korg MS-20 mini.

Sweetwater
"now digitally stabilized"

holy troll bait. it's not even out yet. this isn't even worth discussing unless there is a point to be made.
Really? :truce:

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Re: Korg Mini MS-20

Post by bouzoukijoe1 » Sat Jan 26, 2013 4:38 pm

burnsjed wrote:
bouzoukijoe1 wrote:
burnsjed wrote:What do you make of this?
Back and smaller than ever, Korg's MS-20 mini analog synthesizer revives the legendary MS-20 synth in all of its glory, but at 86% of the original size. This is no copycat knockoff either - the MS-20 mini is nearly identical to the original, with the same analog oscillators (now digitally stabilized), first-generation filters, and a VCA that's been tweaked to reduce noise. You'll also find cool new additions, including an External Signal Processor for your mics and instruments, MIDI In, and even USB connectivity, onboard the Korg MS-20 mini.

Sweetwater
"now digitally stabilized"

holy troll bait. it's not even out yet. this isn't even worth discussing unless there is a point to be made.
Really? :truce:
no offense if you didn't mean it, but it's just that lots of people get all hot and bothered by DCO vs. VCO. there are pros and cons to both and pros and cons to stable vs. unstable oscillators. I am personally a fan of both unpredictable/drifting oscillators and modern/reliable/consistent oscillators. I like to have both.

we should really just appreciate whatever the Mini MS-20 is right now, because this is nothing short of a miracle, especially at this price. maybe next year we can debate the merits of a non-stabilized analog Korg oscillator. :lol:

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Re: Korg Mini MS-20

Post by burnsjed » Sat Jan 26, 2013 4:42 pm

Couldn't agree more!
The new Prophet 12 thread on GS is a great example of that.
Seems to be more about the signal path to some than what their ears are telling (or should be) them.
Hope and trust this doesn't start off a digital/analog slug fest on here!

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Re: Korg Mini MS-20

Post by sequentialsoftshock » Sat Jan 26, 2013 6:50 pm

I'd rather have analog filters and digital oscillators than analog oscillators and digital filters actually.

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Re: Korg Mini MS-20

Post by breckjay » Sat Jan 26, 2013 8:06 pm

this maybe a dumb question but im going to ask it anyway. Is there a loss of audio quality because the output is 1/8 and not 1/4?
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Re: Korg Mini MS-20

Post by dustinh » Sat Jan 26, 2013 8:18 pm

breckjay wrote:this maybe a dumb question but im going to ask it anyway. Is there a loss of audio quality because the output is 1/8 and not 1/4?
I hope so. That will make it sound more analog and help compensate for the quieter vca they put in it.

In all seriousness, no. Not an audible difference.

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Re: Korg Mini MS-20

Post by bhrama » Sat Jan 26, 2013 8:51 pm

sequentialsoftshock wrote:I'd rather have analog filters and digital oscillators than analog oscillators and digital filters actually.
+1 on this. Totally opinion based but I'd take creamy analog filters w/in-tune osc vs. step filters w/ drifting osc.

caveat: todays advances with digital modeling are awfully damned close to analog.

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