Nord Lead 4 Coming to Musikmesse

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Re: Nord Lead 4 Coming to Musikmesse

Post by masstronaut » Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:40 pm

droolmaster0 wrote:Sure - if it doesn't work, just buy another computer. Sure. Issues like lack of space, etc - those are irrelevant. If nord cared about their customers, they would do minor updates to make the software compatible. And even if you want to be a fanboy and say that their support on this is exemplary, wtf should I buy something where I know that I'm going to have to buy another computer in order to use the hardware? Insane. The rational decision for me is to just boycott them.
You forgot that the operative word there is *IF*. Many, most, work fine. And you would only need to use another computer *IF* you couldn't run the editor on one you have. It's not a fully standalone system so it needs a computer. I've not had any problems at all which is impressive considering it's a rather experimental digital system something like 15 years old. That's a good record if you ask me. But yes if you're not in to working with computers and whatever that entails it's something you should avoid and probably always has been.

Lots of people are using them with no problems at all. And at the worst how much space does a laptop take up? Once you've made your patches you can shove that under your bed if you like.
Last edited by masstronaut on Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:46 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Nord Lead 4 Coming to Musikmesse

Post by droolmaster0 » Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:41 pm

silikon wrote:
droolmaster0 wrote:The rational decision for me is to just boycott them.
Already have the T-Shirts made up. Want one? :D
I want 4 - one for each testicle.

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Re: Nord Lead 4 Coming to Musikmesse

Post by silikon » Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:47 pm

:lol: :lol: :lol:
echo 1 > /dev/awesome

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Re: Nord Lead 4 Coming to Musikmesse

Post by droolmaster0 » Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:48 pm

Not into working with computers? WTF?

I wasn't aware that they stopped selling the G2 15 years ago. Are those dog years?

Symbolicsound for example would be an example of a relatively small company that always provides an upgrade path for their hardware, and continues to support you even if you have very old hardware.

If you're going to release an expensive product that requires a computer, then you should make some commitment to your customers who are buying it. Given that they do not, and given that I don't want to have a room full of computers (they aren't the only company who does this), I simply won't buy from them.

I just experienced this recently with a very expensive product, where the site doesn't mention that it really isn't supported any longer. I found out that they have no intention of upgrading the software component. luckily they will take it back and I'll get my $3800 back. But repeated experiences like this make me very wary of buying combined hardware/software products from companies without a proven track record of supporting their customers.
masstronaut wrote:
droolmaster0 wrote:Sure - if it doesn't work, just buy another computer. Sure. Issues like lack of space, etc - those are irrelevant. If nord cared about their customers, they would do minor updates to make the software compatible. And even if you want to be a fanboy and say that their support on this is exemplary, wtf should I buy something where I know that I'm going to have to buy another computer in order to use the hardware? Insane. The rational decision for me is to just boycott them.
You forgot that the operative word there is *IF*. Many, most work fine. It's not a fully standalone system so it needs a computer. I've not had any problems at all which is impressive considering it's a rather experimental digital system something like 15 years old. That's a good record if you ask me. But yes if you're not in to working with computers and whatever that entails it's something you should avoid and probably always has been.

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Re: Nord Lead 4 Coming to Musikmesse

Post by masstronaut » Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:09 am

They still work, whatever you think or say of the company's policies. Perhaps if you shake your fist a bit harder all the Nord Modulars (which were originally released 15 years ago) in the world will spontaneously become unusable by some process of morphic resonance. Maybe then you won't feel so compelled to make sure everybody knows you don't want to buy one in case you forget and accidentally put an order in.

And yeah, some people don't like having to mess with computers beyond just having stuff work. That's totally understandable - a lot of musicians are certainly like that. It's something I know about so I don't consider it an issue but I recognise it can be a pain in the arse *IF* that's not your thing. There's that word again.
droolmaster0 wrote:Not into working with computers? WTF?

I wasn't aware that they stopped selling the G2 15 years ago. Are those dog years?

Symbolicsound for example would be an example of a relatively small company that always provides an upgrade path for their hardware, and continues to support you even if you have very old hardware.

If you're going to release an expensive product that requires a computer, then you should make some commitment to your customers who are buying it. Given that they do not, and given that I don't want to have a room full of computers (they aren't the only company who does this), I simply won't buy from them.

I just experienced this recently with a very expensive product, where the site doesn't mention that it really isn't supported any longer. I found out that they have no intention of upgrading the software component. luckily they will take it back and I'll get my $3800 back. But repeated experiences like this make me very wary of buying combined hardware/software products from companies without a proven track record of supporting their customers.
masstronaut wrote:
droolmaster0 wrote:Sure - if it doesn't work, just buy another computer. Sure. Issues like lack of space, etc - those are irrelevant. If nord cared about their customers, they would do minor updates to make the software compatible. And even if you want to be a fanboy and say that their support on this is exemplary, wtf should I buy something where I know that I'm going to have to buy another computer in order to use the hardware? Insane. The rational decision for me is to just boycott them.
You forgot that the operative word there is *IF*. Many, most work fine. It's not a fully standalone system so it needs a computer. I've not had any problems at all which is impressive considering it's a rather experimental digital system something like 15 years old. That's a good record if you ask me. But yes if you're not in to working with computers and whatever that entails it's something you should avoid and probably always has been.

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Re: Nord Lead 4 Coming to Musikmesse

Post by Ashe37 » Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:29 am

If you're worried about old software stopping working on your machine, you need to talk to your OS provider (presumably, Apple) and not the synth manufacturer.

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Re: Nord Lead 4 Coming to Musikmesse

Post by Stab Frenzy » Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:29 am

droolmaster0 wrote:
Stab Frenzy wrote:
droolmaster0 wrote:Even if they came out with a nord modular 3, I'd never buy it. They have a history of releasing these things, and then dropping all support of them.
How long do you want them to support discontinued products?
you mean do I have an exact number? That's absolutely ridiculous. There have been lots of complaints over the years that for their products that require a computer to edit the patches, they discontinue the product and then rather quickly stop supporting and updating the computer software. But no, I don't have an exact cutoff. Sorry about that.
Sorry, how ridiculous of me to attempt to engage in a civilised conversation with you Gene, I forgot you only speak rant. The editor software for the G2 hasn't been updated but it still works perfectly fine. I imagine there will be some point in the future when I might get a new computer with OS11 on it or something and the editor might not work with the new computer, but it will still work with the computer I have now.

You say there have been lots of complaints over the years, but I believe these are from people like yourself who don't even have a Nord modular and just like having a good cry on the Internet about things. People like myself who actually own one are happily using them still.

Anyway, this is a thread about the Nord Lead 4, if you want to complain about something you don't even own theoretically not being able to have the architecture rearranged by computer (the synth still works without a computer of course, and you can make and save new patches, just not easily change the modular architecture) at some point in the future then you can start a new thread about it.

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Re: Nord Lead 4 Coming to Musikmesse

Post by droolmaster0 » Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:40 am

Demanding that I give you a firm cutoff date is starting with the presupposition that my expectations are unreasonable.

I have some rather reliable reports that the g2 does NOT run very well on current Mac software. It is not a risk I'm willing to take, especially given the fact that I have no assurance that it will continue to work with the next software upgrade - so unless I want to commit myself to buying another computer, I have no assurances that it will continue to work. Not worth it, at least for me.

What I see from YOU is rant, and accusations....I did own a g2 at one point. I thought about getting one again, but had some very interesting reports about how well it worked. Do I have to own one NOW in order to have any credibility? That's very curious. And yes - there were complaints over the years, and it was my impression that it was mostly from owners. But I guess you're one of those people who believes that if you complain about an instrument you must not know what you're doing.

At this point I'm just answering you.

Droolmaster0 wrote:
you mean do I have an exact number? That's absolutely ridiculous. There have been lots of complaints over the years that for their products that require a computer to edit the patches, they discontinue the product and then rather quickly stop supporting and updating the computer software. But no, I don't have an exact cutoff. Sorry about that.
Sorry, how ridiculous of me to attempt to engage in a civilised conversation with you Gene, I forgot you only speak rant. The editor software for the G2 hasn't been updated but it still works perfectly fine. I imagine there will be some point in the future when I might get a new computer with OS11 on it or something and the editor might not work with the new computer, but it will still work with the computer I have now.

You say there have been lots of complaints over the years, but I believe these are from people like yourself who don't even have a Nord modular and just like having a good cry on the Internet about things. People like myself who actually own one are happily using them still.

Anyway, this is a thread about the Nord Lead 4, if you want to complain about something you don't even own theoretically not being able to have the architecture rearranged by computer (the synth still works without a computer of course, and you can make and save new patches, just not easily change the modular architecture) at some point in the future then you can start a new thread about it.

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Re: Nord Lead 4 Coming to Musikmesse

Post by silikon » Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:44 am

Sorry, Apologies for the thread hijack, but this needs stated:
masstronaut wrote:They still work, whatever you think or say of the company's policies.
*many* still work. What happens when yours stops working? Where will you get replacement hardware? It's not like you can just solder in new components and roll on...
masstronaut wrote:some people don't like having to mess with computers beyond just having stuff work
I don't think that has anything to do with it. When I'm in composition mode, the last thing I want to do is revert back to a f**k system administrator. No thank you. Surefire inspiration killer.
Ashe37 wrote:you need to talk to your OS provider (presumably, Apple) and not the synth manufacturer.
The OS provider isn't responsible for fixing an application, and by the time you complain to Apple that a change in their architecture broke your application, there's not many real avenues to go down that will resolve the issue quickly.
Stab Frenzy wrote:The editor software for the G2 hasn't been updated but it still works perfectly fine.
The editor does work fine, you're correct. The problem lies in the interaction between the synth and the computer. That's where problems appear to happen the most. Firmware incompatibility, at least with the problems I was experiencing -- and I certainly wasn't the only one.

As stated before, I would have loved for the thing to work for me, but I refuse to be a systems administrator more often than a composer. I want to make music, not admin a computer or debug a problem for 20 hours. There is basis for this complaint, and I think it's valid, and (somewhat relevant, although I think I kind of was the cause for detracting the thread, so I'm sorry about that)...
echo 1 > /dev/awesome

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Re: Nord Lead 4 Coming to Musikmesse

Post by Stab Frenzy » Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:09 am

droolmaster0 wrote:Demanding that I give you a firm cutoff date
I see no demand of a firm cutoff anywhere, and I don't think anyone apart from you did either. Judging from Silikon's response he read it as it was written; as a general enquiry that needed a general answer, not some 'demand' for an 'exact cutoff'. His point about Clavia releasing the source code for third parties to develop an open-source editor was a good one.

Gene I know you like to stir up trouble on forums and that's why you've been banned from so many (including here at least once if I recall correctly). Please don't start doing that here again, we don't need the drama. :)

Now everyone, get back onto the topic of the Lead 4, any Nord modular support discussion can go in a new thread.

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Re: Nord Lead 4 Coming to Musikmesse

Post by droolmaster0 » Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:56 am

No, I don't like to stir up trouble. It seems to me that you're stirring it up. Stir it up, and then ban the people that object. That's the VSE way, as I recall.

You asked me how long they should support the software - what was the purpose of that question? How can there possibly be an exact answer to that question?

Given the type of moderation that you have here, it is somewhat of a badge of honor to have been banned from here. I'm not sure that I ever have actually been banned from here, actually. If so, it hasn't been for a very long time.

As a moderator you should not interact with people the way that you do, in my opinion. Invoking my experience on other forums, without me having a chance to defend myself, of course, is the height of fairness, isn't it?
Stab Frenzy wrote:
droolmaster0 wrote:Demanding that I give you a firm cutoff date
I see no demand of a firm cutoff anywhere, and I don't think anyone apart from you did either. Judging from Silikon's response he read it as it was written; as a general enquiry that needed a general answer, not some 'demand' for an 'exact cutoff'. His point about Clavia releasing the source code for third parties to develop an open-source editor was a good one.

Gene I know you like to stir up trouble on forums and that's why you've been banned from so many (including here at least once if I recall correctly). Please don't start doing that here again, we don't need the drama. :)

Now everyone, get back onto the topic of the Lead 4, any Nord modular support discussion can go in a new thread.

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Re: Nord Lead 4 Coming to Musikmesse

Post by Stab Frenzy » Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:58 am

:facepalm:
Stab Frenzy wrote:Now everyone, get back onto the topic of the Lead 4

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Re: Nord Lead 4 Coming to Musikmesse

Post by droolmaster0 » Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:11 am

Stab Frenzy wrote:I have a G2 and it's great. I've used it for heaps of different things in the studio and live, from sequencing a set of midi controlled bells for an outdoor performance to triggering synth voices with drum triggers to using as a normal poly synth. It's a fantastically useful synth and should have been an amazing seller but for whatever reason it wasn't.
Yes. Don't let that evil droolmaster turn this into a discussion about the g2.

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Re: Nord Lead 4 Coming to Musikmesse

Post by Synthacon » Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:58 am

Come on guys, back on topic please.
You always want just one more Synth!

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Re: Nord Lead 4 Coming to Musikmesse

Post by madtheory » Fri Apr 12, 2013 8:44 pm

Hybrid88 wrote:they are failing to turn a profit and have done for several years.
Evidence/ links?

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