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Re: New analog boxes from Korg?

Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 11:59 pm
by pflosi
atlantida wrote:Some funny maths. If 2 Volca keys (3 voices) cost 150 USD each then a new Polysix would cost a little over 300 USD[...]
You're missing around four VCFs and VCAs in that equation...

Re: New analog boxes from Korg?

Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 12:24 am
by Electroluver
All of the boxes look awesome, though I'm partial to the beats and sub bass units. I have a polysynth for the chords and stuff.

Re: New analog boxes from Korg?

Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 10:14 am
by atlantida
pflosi wrote:
atlantida wrote:Some funny maths. If 2 Volca keys (3 voices) cost 150 USD each then a new Polysix would cost a little over 300 USD[...]
You're missing around four VCFs and VCAs in that equation...
You know what "equation" I used? I projected it from the Korg Monotron versus Korg Volca Keys!
The Monotron's cost was about 50 USD for one voice, the Volca Keys has 3 voices for 3 times the money (3 x 50 USD = 150 USD) including new extra features so it's not too far-fetched what I stated, for a mini Polysix (since Korg likes it small, lol) with patch memory and additional features, they could make it for max. 600-700 USD.

Re: New analog boxes from Korg?

Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 2:34 pm
by Jabberwalky
Has it been determined that the Volca keys has 3 individual voices? They're not pulling a Poly800 and sharing 1 env and 1 filter are they?

Re: New analog boxes from Korg?

Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 11:48 pm
by pflosi
^ Of course it's 1 env, 1 VCF...

Re: New analog boxes from Korg?

Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 2:44 am
by sourwookie
@ atlantida

I came up with these numbers quite a bit upthread but I'll repost them here. At the time I wrote this I was unaware of the difference between paraphonic and polyphonic--so my math here reflects production and sale cost of a paraphonic 6-voice Keys based synth with a keybed. As I understand now, the costs would have to go up a non-trivial amount to make it truly polyphonic.
sourwookie wrote:As far as R&D goes, the Volca Keys are real, do exist, and are out there already so I don't see any major additional investment there. Now, they sell to a Korg Dealer for $97 dollars wholesale. Most manufactures like to make a 33 to 50 percent markup on an item moved to wholesale. that means their cost per unit is around $65 to $75 bucks a unit. Let's be pessimistic and say $75. Now the keyboard I envision would have the workings of 2 Volka Keys. They could save expense by eliminating redundant I/O's and the membrane keyboards, but we'll leave that alone. So that puts us up to $150 in production costs for the guts of two Volcas. As far as additional hardware like a keybed and pitch wheel go, let's look to existing products like the Alesis Q61. It too sells for $149, and if we apply Korg's pricing structure to that we may be able to assume a production cost of $75 there also. That puts us up to $225. Let's just tack on a few buck more for additional features like keyboard scaling on the VCF or a pitch EG (don't forget--we now have two LFOs at our disposal). Let's then go to $250

Breakdown:
Volca 1: $75
Volca 2: $75
Keybed: $75
"goodies": $25
Production Subtotal: $250

Cost to dealers (net price=$250 X 1.5)= $375

In Music retail List price is usually twice net, so:
$375 X 2 = $750 List

And "street price" is commonly list less 30%, so:
$750 X .7 = $525

$750 list, $525 street price. Not bad for a basic, stripped down, six voice analog.
So yes, atlantida, it could be done for around your price, but that would be a paraphonic synth. Not as cool as a true polyphonic synth, but still usable.

Re: New analog boxes from Korg?

Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 5:34 pm
by JSRockit
It's sad that Korg couldn't deliver these on time.

Re: New analog boxes from Korg?

Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 11:02 pm
by Re-Member
JSRockit wrote:It's sad that Korg couldn't deliver these on time.
What do you mean? They said these would be out during the Summer and there is still about seven weeks left in the season.

Re: New analog boxes from Korg?

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 7:04 pm
by supermel74
Re-Member wrote:
JSRockit wrote:It's sad that Korg couldn't deliver these on time.
What do you mean? They said these would be out during the Summer and there is still about seven weeks left in the season.
I recall a Roland rep saying July in one of the NAMM videos.

Re: New analog boxes from Korg?

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 7:53 pm
by Re-Member
supermel74 wrote:I recall a Roland rep saying July in one of the NAMM videos.
They've been out for about a month now in Japan, so that's still accurate. Since the US and UK are larger countries and probably have thousands of more orders, it makes sense that there would be a delay since it's cheaper to ship these overseas in bulk. The same thing happened with the MS-20 Mini. Japan got there's about a month and half earlier than any of the larger countries. But like I said earlier, people really shouldn't start complaining till at least after Summer.

Re: New analog boxes from Korg?

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:50 pm
by meatballfulton
Re-Member wrote:people really shouldn't start complaining till at least after Summer.
Ahhh, why wait? :drinks:

Re: New analog boxes from Korg?

Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:04 am
by Cumulus
Re PCM...The box is mostly analog but it has some PCM sounds as well.

Re: New analog boxes from Korg?

Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:33 pm
by atlantida
sourwookie wrote:@ atlantida

I came up with these numbers quite a bit upthread but I'll repost them here. At the time I wrote this I was unaware of the difference between paraphonic and polyphonic--so my math here reflects production and sale cost of a paraphonic 6-voice Keys based synth with a keybed. As I understand now, the costs would have to go up a non-trivial amount to make it truly polyphonic.
sourwookie wrote:As far as R&D goes, the Volca Keys are real, do exist, and are out there already so I don't see any major additional investment there. Now, they sell to a Korg Dealer for $97 dollars wholesale. Most manufactures like to make a 33 to 50 percent markup on an item moved to wholesale. that means their cost per unit is around $65 to $75 bucks a unit. Let's be pessimistic and say $75. Now the keyboard I envision would have the workings of 2 Volka Keys. They could save expense by eliminating redundant I/O's and the membrane keyboards, but we'll leave that alone. So that puts us up to $150 in production costs for the guts of two Volcas. As far as additional hardware like a keybed and pitch wheel go, let's look to existing products like the Alesis Q61. It too sells for $149, and if we apply Korg's pricing structure to that we may be able to assume a production cost of $75 there also. That puts us up to $225. Let's just tack on a few buck more for additional features like keyboard scaling on the VCF or a pitch EG (don't forget--we now have two LFOs at our disposal). Let's then go to $250

Breakdown:
Volca 1: $75
Volca 2: $75
Keybed: $75
"goodies": $25
Production Subtotal: $250

Cost to dealers (net price=$250 X 1.5)= $375

In Music retail List price is usually twice net, so:
$375 X 2 = $750 List

And "street price" is commonly list less 30%, so:
$750 X .7 = $525

$750 list, $525 street price. Not bad for a basic, stripped down, six voice analog.
So yes, atlantida, it could be done for around your price, but that would be a paraphonic synth. Not as cool as a true polyphonic synth, but still usable.

Oh, I see; sorry for mixing paraphonic with polyphonic. :oops:

Re: New analog boxes from Korg?

Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:54 pm
by stich
Sweetwater doesn't appear to make it clear that the units are not really shipping as of yet. Kinda lame if you ask me.

Re: New analog boxes from Korg?

Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 1:08 am
by Blue Monster 65
Quoting Sweetwater: Korg's new 100% analog drum machine, Volca Beats, is expected to begin shipping in September 2013. Pre-order activity on this item is guaranteed to be extremely high, so it is imperative that you place your pre-order with Sweetwater as soon as possible so that we can ship yours from our earliest possible shipment.

The Korg rep (not my former guy - some new, younger guy) told me he expected them to ship in July, but obviously the date was not for the States. They'll get here when they get here, I guess.