What should each company make next?

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Re: What should each company make next?

Post by OB-XaMinimoog » Wed Jul 10, 2013 7:04 am

Hybrid88 wrote:Why is it everyone just wants remakes of what manufacturers have already made? Lets move past the endless vintage reissues and start innovating, I mean I'm all for new analog synths and the MS-20 mini is great and all but surely we can think up something a little more interesting? Why be limited with old designs?

Digital is cheap now and we have SMT, surely that goes a long way to making what would have been way too complicated to do back in the day a reality now. Just my $0.02 :geek:
Ya know I love analog and would LOVE to see some analog synth re-issues, but at the same I wouldn't mind see some new innovations. Problem is, every big manufacturer anymore is throwing everything away onto Workstations. Because we need more of those! I mean each brand only makes like 10 models of Workstation that are pretty much all the same. Its like when Roland released the Jupiter 50 and 80; Oh heres this AWESOME NEW KEYBOARD and made it out to be this big thing but all it is is a hyped up Workstation with the Jupiter name on it. Real new and innovated right there.

They really could be doing some cool stuff, but NOPE. Workstations.

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Re: What should each company make next?

Post by hyphen nation » Wed Jul 10, 2013 7:20 am

in terms of innovation, I don't actually care about analog or digital, but what I do care about, and really respond to is user interface. I want easy to use. Sometimes that means a knob or slider for every parameter, sometimes it means a super easy to use interface. At the moment I want a machine that has the fewest barriers to fun...the SEM is a great example of a synth that I wasn't sure what to expect that proved to be a go to monosynth in my line up. Same with any of the Elektron gear...country simple use, to get started on, yet has the depth to give me to tools to create much more rich or robust song structures. It is probably because I am dim, but I always got frustrated on older MPC's, loading samples off of zip or scsi drives...That always struck me as a tool that should be all sorts of awesome but had too many hurdles to fun/creativity. Anyway, I am rambling...but I want the immediacy of being able to shape sound and get playing. I know we are on the edge of the next gen of interaction with computers/natural user interfaces [my kid doesn't understand why every screen isn't a touch screen]. We should be looking at what is a more natural way to create the sounds we want.

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Re: What should each company make next?

Post by Psy_Free » Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:11 am

bochelli wrote:what is needed is a new company just born and offers something new
You mean something like the Hartmann Neuron ? ;)
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Re: What should each company make next?

Post by danbroad » Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:01 am

Korg PolyVolca
Access Synth Profiling FX rack (doing for synths what the Kemper does for guitars)
Arturia Maxibrute 2-voice (think Oberheim or Odyssey)
Korg SQ10
Novation BassStation rack - make it 3U knobby, though, not 1U cramped
DSI ProphetOne with the digi-analog path of the P12 to replace the MEK

With the NL4 don't expect another Nord for a decade. Roland deserve to stay out of the game, although their audio interfaces are excellent. Maybe they could release another VDrum. Yamaha could spruce up the Motif, no need to change too drastically from a winning formula. MFB and the other independents should continue to plough their own furrows. Moog will probably sell three more variations of the SubPhatty including a rack and an XL.

The market will evolve, not innovate whilst the world lurches from one financial crisis to the next. Not for a niche like ours, anyway.
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Re: What should each company make next?

Post by briandc » Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:28 pm

There seem to be 2 kinds of keyboard users: those who want to tweak, and those who don't.

As such, maybe manufacturers should decide which group to cater to, and focus on that. :)


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Re: What should each company make next?

Post by Sir Ruff » Wed Jul 10, 2013 3:40 pm

Jabberwalky wrote:I want a hardware sampler like the old emulators with a full knob and slider interface. Easy to use Adsr envelopes, a full mod matrix, 3 Lfos, and analog svf filters. It would be about the size of a mopho 4x. Sample at 12 bit, with a bit reducer at the beginning and end of the signal chain. The filters would be simplified to accommodate trimming unwanted freqs per sample, with a final resonant filter at the end of the chain. I know this could be made or less than 1k.
I've been pining after something like this for ages... The Mirage engine with knobs, and S-612 style sample trimmers basically...
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Re: What should each company make next?

Post by vladimotor » Wed Jul 10, 2013 3:56 pm

Roland deserve to stay out of the game, although their audio interfaces are excellent. Maybe they could release another VDrum.
Really?? Roland?! Not Korg??? Roland??? :?

No, you really think that Roland makes worse keyboards then Kingkorg, Radias, Krome, MicroX, PS60, Microstation, x50 and Kross? For f**k's sake, Kronos is s**t!

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Re: What should each company make next?

Post by CS_TBL » Wed Jul 10, 2013 5:53 pm

Innovation? Barely anything new required. The next step should be quantity and lots of tiny details that require almost zilch CPU-power or memory .

There are unison sounds like strings, brass and choir, for which you'd want to stack single voices rather then routing a single voice through a generic chorus effect. So, the next mono synth or 4-voice or 8-voice.. well.. should just go away. Wake me up when 256..512..1024 voices gets common. And no, those figures aren't outlandish, just leave it up to a sound designer to think of a purpose. Naturally, all the private effects per multi timbral channel and multi timbrality in general should go up.

Time-based changes such like LFOs and envelopes should be more (quantity) and more random. Why do all these synths have one or two LFOs, don't synth builders have the creativity to see more opportunities in bigger quantities? I'd say: gimme like eight of them per voice, with free multiple-destination routing. Also, each LFO should have some more parameters, such as a speed envelope to create progressive vibrato, all parameters should (if the user wants that) be influenced by randomness. Same for envelopes, why can't there be random fluctuations in attack times and decay times? Why must it all be static? The overarching point I want to make is to bridge the gap between traditional synths and human controlled instruments (bowed, blown, plucked).

Non-linear curves. Why does no-one take the trouble to add look-up tables for things like controllers (PB, mod, AT etc.) and velocity? Why must they all be linear and 1:1 like what you play or tweak? More randomness there too! Again: a bridge to get closer to real instruments. "Well, why don't you use real instruments or samples 'n things?" you say? I propose to make traditional synthesizers (analogue, FM) which react as realistic and dynamic as possible. Only then can we make new sounds which have the sound of a synthesizer and the playing quality and expressiveness of real instruments. and FM8 comes close, but we're not there yet.
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Re: What should each company make next?

Post by Ashe37 » Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:30 am

OB-XaMinimoog wrote:Its like when Roland released the Jupiter 50 and 80; Oh heres this AWESOME NEW KEYBOARD and made it out to be this big thing but all it is is a hyped up Workstation with the Jupiter name on it. Real new and innovated right there.

They really could be doing some cool stuff, but NOPE. Workstations.
Uhm, its NOT a workstation, its NOT a 'hyped up workstation'. If its a workstation, its the worst workstation ever \made, considering it is really only 4-way multitimbral and lacks an actual sequencer (i.e. you couldn't, you know, actually sequence a song on it.... one of the primary traits of a workstation.)

vladimotor wrote:No, you really think that Roland makes worse keyboards then Kingkorg, Radias, Krome, MicroX, PS60, Microstation, x50 and Kross? For f**k's sake, Kronos is s**t!
Dude, I am so sick of you saying the Kronos is 's**t' and never substantiating your claim. Have you ever been in the same room as one? At least Korg is making synths people can actually afford, instead of making $3000 synths and everything else being a rehash of the same ROMpler engine. (I also find it odd your long list of products you apparently thing are bad includes the MicroX, which you own, and yet doesn't include the M3.)

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Re: What should each company make next?

Post by Alex E » Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:06 am

I personally love the Kronos, even if it's a little too deep for my liking. It's a very logical continuation of the Trinity -> Triton legacy.
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Re: What should each company make next?

Post by Pro5 » Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:23 pm

For Roland:

Combine a V-Synth (potential/upgraded engine) with a JD-800 (sexiness, digital warmth and interface) + some honest real analog (filters or oscs or both) and that is the next Roland super synth right there. Swap out the VA part for real (DCO) analog but keep the rest. Add a great keybed good build quality and good looks and forget the Jupiter 80 ever existed. :lol:

For Korg:

Stop with the VAs and tinker boxes, dump the workstations and the romplers (this applies to all 3). Keep on with the MS-20 mini idea but maybe consider making something to rival the Andromeda? a NEW analog synth.

For Yamaha:

Get someone else in (Roland) to design your interface then make an ultra FM synth with on board sampling to use as operators (llike SY99 but modern and with an easy interface to do it - like a V-synth meets an SY77 but with a slider/pot laden interface) :)

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Re: What should each company make next?

Post by Ashe37 » Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:35 pm

Pro5 wrote:dump the workstations and the romplers (this applies to all 3).

Unfortunately, the workstations and the romplers is where they make most of their money. Most of the instrument buying public needs/wants a keyboard that can make piano sound and synth sounds and maybe some string sounds and brass sounds, and has presets they like for all of those, and will never sit down and try to program the thing.

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Re: What should each company make next?

Post by vladimotor » Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:50 pm

Dude, I am so sick of you saying the Kronos is 's**t' and never substantiating your claim. Have you ever been in the same room as one?
I thought this was the first time i ever mentioned Kronos here.Yes, I have spent some time waiting for Kronos to boot up ;)
At least Korg is making synths people can actually afford, instead of making $3000 synths and everything else being a rehash of the same ROMpler engine. (I also find it odd your long list of products you apparently thing are bad includes the MicroX, which you own, and yet doesn't include the M3.)
The reason i didn't include m3 in my post is that i almost liked some things about it, although as a synth it's mediocre.
Uh! MicroX! I do still own this dead piece of garbage. Should probably donate it for parts.
I personally can't afford to waste money on all the cheap c**p companies like Korg make.
V-Synth is a killer synth, Jupiter80 does have a misleading name, but it's a decent synth, well made, yes, slightly overpriced. Although considering how much Kurzweil wants for the PC3K boards(that are made in china)...
I haven't tried Jupiter50 yet, but the Sonicstate's review left me unimpressed.

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Re: What should each company make next?

Post by Hybrid88 » Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:51 pm

JayEm wrote:Just curious, but everyone asking for "new innovations", what is it YOU would come up with?..
hyphen nation wrote:in terms of innovation, I don't actually care about analog or digital, but what I do care about, and really respond to is user interface...
This ^

Exactly what needs to happen. What manufacturers need to do is realise that the window box approach of yesteryear is long overdue for an update, and people want hands on control, not a f**k software editor crutch to program their synth. :?

To me the absolute best example of a great interface like this was the V-Synth, as it took the best of different technologies to make a logical and very clever 'whole'. By technologies I mean the touchscreen (in particular), the data/scroll wheel, buttons and select appropriate knobs/sliders. Makes a winning formula IMO.


Some things I personally would like to see more widely adopted are;

- Colour touchscreens (just makes sense, this is f**k 2013!!! Our throwaway consumer phones have vastly better screens than most so called 'professional' synths ffs! :evil: )

- OLED screens (sharp and clear, just what an LCD should be), none of that bloody character display pixelated nonsense with ridiculous nonsensical abbreviated parameter text, this is not the 80's anymore, and I do not want to look at another one of those horrid things as long as I live)

- Motorised pots/sliders (seriously for a programmable synth would be insane, yet to date no one has done it, true it would bring the cost up, but it would be totally worth it on the right synth - digital desks have it, why not synths?)

- Hybrid synths (DCO poly's with digital filter/FX, or digital poly's/samplers with analog filters, nice to see the new Prophet 12, more of that kind of thing please)

- More types of synthesis (FM, Additive, Granular, Sample etc but in hardware with logical knob/display interfaces)

- XOX style sequencing on keyboard synths (would make a nice little bonus, kinda SH-101 add-on style, something intuitive)

- Poly aftertouch (no seriously, it's a big deal for a reason, think of what the CS-80 would be without it).

Another idea could be using analog 'module' circuits within a synth and use digital patching to create a machine whose architecture could be controlled via a digital interface but still retain the sound generation/manipulation within an analog domain. I'm thinking something like the V-Synth 'structures' that can be changed dependant on what signal flow the user wants. Along the lines of a traditional modular synth but self contained, polyphonic and more practical.

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Re: What should each company make next?

Post by griffin avid » Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:19 pm

This thread or at least these replies need a distinction- are we naming stuff WE WOULD BUY from the manufacturers or logical pathways that are possible and profitable. I think workstations are a little overblown and pricey and would love a switch to 'sounds in a box' with lots of controls and shaping options, but to think of music being reduced to monophonic analogs... :roll:

Polys are cool, but I don't know the true market potential for such beasts.
And I'm not even sure all the claims of "I would buy one in a heartbeat" are really true.
I read the same guys gushing over 6 different analog monos- surely he hasn't bought them all. So I'm torn between sexy ideas and what is a realistic purchase or sell-able product.

- Colour touchscreens (just makes sense, this is f**k 2013!!! Our throwaway consumer phones have vastly better screens than most so called 'professional' synths ffs!

Have no idea how long these screens would hold up or how possible repairs are. We dump our phones with those nice little screens every 3 years tops. So I don't know if I really want cutting edge technology added to my 'once in a lifetime' purchase. It's like a luxury car with everything automatic and electric. Oh yes, driver-preset side view mirrors...remote cams...all kind of external and internal sensors. Great when you first buy the car. After many years of ownership, those are all the little things that stop working and the only replacement/repair is to strip another junked car.

I don't even think a revolution is necessary. Evolution is good enough.
Linear sequencers....
True connectivity...
Options for expansions....
and support with updates instead of another new product rollout.
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