Guess that synth: Genesis edition

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Guess that synth: Genesis edition

Post by bassdude » Mon Aug 19, 2013 4:53 am

I've always loved this song. I couldn't find much information, so figured I'd ask here. What is the lead synth on the chorus of this song? Thanks.



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Re: Guess that synth: Genesis edition

Post by Virgule » Mon Aug 19, 2013 6:54 am

Arp 2600 and/or Polymoog?

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Re: Guess that synth: Genesis edition

Post by OB-XaMinimoog » Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:48 am

Yep, sounds like a 2600. Tony Banks was a big 2600 user, and really ARP in general. He used a Soloist/Pro-Soloist a lot most notably Selling England by The Pound (never understood why he didn't just get an Odyssey or a Minimoog instead), then got the 2600 and used a Quadra quite a bit. Later on he started to use the Prophet 5 and 10, Polymoog, CS80 (used heavily on the Duke album), Emu Emulator, and Synclavier.

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Re: Guess that synth: Genesis edition

Post by V301H » Mon Aug 19, 2013 8:00 am

Tony Banks wasn't big on Synth programming which is probably why he initially used the Pro-Soloist. When he got the 2600 the band was co-produced by David Hentschel who was responsible for his ARP 2500 work with Elton John and no doubt assisted in programming Tony's 2600.
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Re: Guess that synth: Genesis edition

Post by Bitexion » Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:59 am

The main reason he used the Pro-soloist was that it had lots of preset sounds that could be changed by the flick of a switch. His solo parts are therefore quite unique, in that they use lots of different sounds. He could play a few bars with a square sound and instantly flip to a saw sound and keep playing seemlessly. That was impossible to do other than having half a dozen synths on stage. He saved alot of space using the soloist.

His main boards on-stage were a couple of organs, mellotron and the pro-soloist. And I think he had an RMI Harmonic synth for piano parts (even though it didn't sound like a piano at all) since it was polyphonic, to avoid lugging around a huge stage piano aswell.

Rutherford used the Moog Taurus pedal mostly while playing guitar.

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Re: Guess that synth: Genesis edition

Post by meatballfulton » Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:36 pm

OB-XaMinimoog wrote:never understood why he didn't just get an Odyssey or a Minimoog instead
Probably $$$$$$$$, the ProSoloist was much less expensive.
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Re: Guess that synth: Genesis edition

Post by Micke » Mon Aug 19, 2013 2:38 pm

Yes I believe Tony used the ARP 2600 for that lead sound. Also, I think he'd stopped using the ARP Pro soloist at that point.
Afaik the first Genesis album to feature the ARP 2600 (alongside the Pro soloist) was "A Trick Of TheTail" from late '75.

@Bitexion: Tony had an RMI Electra piano model 368 (I think), not an RMI Harmonic synth. He used the Electra piano up to 1977
or thereabouts, often for sustained organy sounds.
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Re: Guess that synth: Genesis edition

Post by OB-XaMinimoog » Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:26 pm

V301H wrote:Tony Banks wasn't big on Synth programming which is probably why he initially used the Pro-Soloist. When he got the 2600 the band was co-produced by David Hentschel who was responsible for his ARP 2500 work with Elton John and no doubt assisted in programming Tony's 2600.
Bitexion wrote:The main reason he used the Pro-soloist was that it had lots of preset sounds that could be changed by the flick of a switch. His solo parts are therefore quite unique, in that they use lots of different sounds. He could play a few bars with a square sound and instantly flip to a saw sound and keep playing seemlessly. That was impossible to do other than having half a dozen synths on stage. He saved alot of space using the soloist.
Ahh, makes sense. I'm just not a big fan of the Soloists sound, though Tony did do some good stuff with it. He more of an Organ, Piano/EP, and Mellotron player up until the later 70s he started getting more synths.

Don't mean to hijack the thread but I've been listening to this song a lot lately and I've been wondering what he used for the synth lead towards the end underneath the Mellotron Choir. I'm thinking its the 2600 but I've heard people say its the Soloist.




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Re: Guess that synth: Genesis edition

Post by Kenneth » Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:30 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...And_The ... e_Three...

Wikipedia is the knower of all things, and it tells me it was a 2600. It must be so.
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Re: Guess that synth: Genesis edition

Post by ppg_wavecomputer » Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:38 pm

Bitexion wrote: [...] And I think he had an RMI Harmonic synth for piano parts (even though it didn't sound like a piano at all) since it was polyphonic, to avoid lugging around a huge stage piano aswell. [...]
The RMI Harmonic Synthesizer is monophonic. The RMI Keyboard Computer is four to twelve-voice polyphonic, depending on how you set it up.

Tony Banks used the RMI Electra Piano (338X, I think) which was quite popular with people like Rick Wakeman, Ron Mael, or Jon Lord. The intor of "Carpet Crawl" is a classic RMI exercise.

The ARP Pro Soloist is a wonderfully expressive synthesiser, and possibly the most characterful of the preset-based monophonic synthesisers (although the Roland SH-2000 and Yamaha SY-1/2 aren´t bad, either).

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Re: Guess that synth: Genesis edition

Post by bvc » Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:43 pm

Wow, great to see some Genesis love somewhere other than a Genesis forum (not that it exists anymore). Makes sense that other synth freaks would have to have taken note of Tony Banks; it would be difficult not to!

They've been my favorite band since, well, probably before I could talk! I've been lucky enough to see them 4 times in concert, which is kind of a lot given that I'm relatively young... Saw them for the first time in '92; my parents were cool, what can I say? I love everything from Trespass to We Can't Dance and even find things to enjoy on From Genesis to Revelation and Calling All Stations. ;)

Anyway, I've always loved the sound of the organ that was ubiquitous in their songs from around '78 to around '80. I'm very curious as to what synth this is coming from...

Found throughout this track and especially noticeable at the end:
Especially noticeable here, at 2:22:

It's everywhere in that era, and I always try to make a mental note of where it's found so I can ask, but then I forget. Hopefully IK Sonik Synth emulates it as they do many Genesis-inspired sounds. Just have to figure out what it is first.

Thanks!

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Re: Guess that synth: Genesis edition

Post by mpa1104 » Tue Aug 27, 2013 10:14 pm

OB-XaMinimoog wrote:Don't mean to hijack the thread but I've been listening to Entangled a lot lately and I've been wondering what he used for the synth lead towards the end underneath the Mellotron Choir. I'm thinking its the 2600 but I've heard people say its the Soloist.
Micke would know for certain, but if I was going to guess, I'd plump for the 2600 doing the solo in Entangled since it got a fair bit of use on that album (the solo in the middle of Ripples among other things). The Soloist was certainly used in Squonk/Los Endos. That little keyboard by the way, was refreshingly and expressively playable when I got to try it in a 2nd-hand shop one day, in less than a minute I was turning out any of His Banksness's solos that I could remember. Rather sorry I didn't scrape together the cash to buy it.

Was just pondering on another reason that Tony may not have gone for the Minimoog. At the peak of 70s Prog and classic Rock, the Mini had something of a reputation as an "in-yer-face" type of synth (ie, one of the few things that a keyboardist could use to sonically compete with a guitarist). Tony was never really that type of player, he preferred taking the more textural approach rather than the showy soloist approach - that said of course, he certainly gave his fair share of superb solos to the rock canon (In The Cage, Slippermen, Cinema Show, Quiet Earth, etc). But from what I've gathered from interviews, he would have preferred lead synths that were easier to blend with his special use of chords and textures, rather than one that sliced through it. And slightly related to that, in one interview I read, he also mentioned that he did try using a VCS 3 but found it very difficult to control and unpredictable (which is actually what a lot of VCS 3 owners admire about it ... I know I do! :D ). So, it seems apparent to me that Sir Tony liked some level of immediacy to his boards which would make something like the Soloist a fairly logical choice. Just my $0.02 FWIW
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Re: Guess that synth: Genesis edition

Post by Bitexion » Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:27 am

One of Banks' signature sounds was using a phaser pedal on the Hammond Organ to make that kind of organ sound.
He used and MXR-100 phaser and a Hammond M-102 most in the 70s. It's very audible on this live recording from 1979. The RMI electric piano is also in there, before the synth solo part.

Specially love the brass lead sound from the pro soloist at around 03:27. Phil's drumming is also pretty stellar on this part.


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Re: Guess that synth: Genesis edition

Post by bvc » Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:49 am

Bitexion wrote:One of Banks' signature sounds was using a phaser pedal on the Hammond Organ to make that kind of organ sound.
He used and MXR-100 phaser and a Hammond M-102 most in the 70s. It's very audible on this live recording from 1979. The RMI electric piano is also in there, before the synth solo part.

Specially love the brass lead sound from the pro soloist at around 03:27. Phil's drumming is also pretty stellar on this part.

Not to nitpick, but this was from '77, from the time of Second's Out. You can tell by Phil's mountain man look. By '79 he'd lost the beard and had shorter hair... unfortunately. But he grew the beard back in '80! Okay, enough embarrassing myself.

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Re: Guess that synth: Genesis edition

Post by Anaon » Tue Jul 07, 2015 4:16 pm

Hi!

Sorry to update an old thread but I suppose my question fits here...

I was looking for the Mellotron tapes used by Banks during the 70's era, for "Entangled" in particular. Is this the 8 Choir tape of the M400?

Thank you ;)
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