Moog Little Phatty Discontinued

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Re: Moog Little Phatty Discontinued

Post by Cumulus » Fri Sep 20, 2013 9:02 pm

Those look cool.

I'm sure a lot of people got into analog synthesis via the Moogerfoogers but they are still more pricey than some peopel can afford. A more full-featured analog synth with a price point under $200 would generate a lot of business but again, might be viewed as cheapening the name.

I remember when Cadillac came out with the Cimmaron, which was just a Chevy cavalier with Caddy badging and some nice options. Suddenly, most poeple could afford a Caddy but it wasnt a "real" Cadillac.

I think it's easier for a company like Korg to go after the lower-priced market than it would be for Moog.

They have to do something to compete with the MiniBrutes and the Mophos, though. The Minitaur is a step in that direction, as is the Slim Phatty, I think.

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Re: Moog Little Phatty Discontinued

Post by calaverasgrande » Fri Sep 20, 2013 9:47 pm

Cumulus wrote:Those look cool.

I'm sure a lot of people got into analog synthesis via the Moogerfoogers but they are still more pricey than some peopel can afford. A more full-featured analog synth with a price point under $200 would generate a lot of business but again, might be viewed as cheapening the name.

I remember when Cadillac came out with the Cimmaron, which was just a Chevy cavalier with Caddy badging and some nice options. Suddenly, most poeple could afford a Caddy but it wasnt a "real" Cadillac.

I think it's easier for a company like Korg to go after the lower-priced market than it would be for Moog.

They have to do something to compete with the MiniBrutes and the Mophos, though. The Minitaur is a step in that direction, as is the Slim Phatty, I think.
Well Moog is made in the USA. Korg's budget offerings are made in China. Not trying to start a political fight.
Just stating the obvious. If Moog wanted to enter that kind of market segment they would almost have to go with one of the Pacific Rim manufacturers. Which might suck, but may not be that bad if they are diligent about QC.
I also wouldn't mind a nice cheap Samick or Cort made Moog guitar. That I could buy despite my shoddy guitar skills.
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Re: Moog Little Phatty Discontinued

Post by tekkentool » Sat Sep 21, 2013 6:55 am

calaverasgrande wrote: missing the point of a drum machine entirely.
I thought the point of drum machines was to make drum sounds. I'm probably wrong though.

calaverasgrande wrote:I've been posting begs for a moog analog drum machine in every "what should Moog make..." thread I have seen.
It isn't that I think Moog's old synth drums were anything spectacular. More that I think only Moog can get us out of the 808/909 ghetto. Everyone that makes an analog drum machine these days assumes we all want 808 boom. Some of us want BETTER than 808.
So what's stopping you from making a kick drum sample yourself that doesn't sound like an 808. Do some round robin samples and you'll get the microscopic "analogue differences" nobody can hear anyway, multisample it and you can give it velocity, no limitations on what you can do to make the bassdrum sound the way you like such as you'll get on a hardwired analogue drum machine...

It's true, 808's aren't that great, in fact I think they're better when you don't spend 3k to buy an actual unit and spend 0$ to find a sample set online so you can pitch them around and get freaky with them. 808 booms are boring, 808 basslines are wicked!

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Re: Moog Little Phatty Discontinued

Post by calaverasgrande » Sat Sep 21, 2013 7:30 am

tekkentool wrote:
calaverasgrande wrote: missing the point of a drum machine entirely.
I thought the point of drum machines was to make drum sounds. I'm probably wrong though.

calaverasgrande wrote:I've been posting begs for a moog analog drum machine in every "what should Moog make..." thread I have seen.
It isn't that I think Moog's old synth drums were anything spectacular. More that I think only Moog can get us out of the 808/909 ghetto. Everyone that makes an analog drum machine these days assumes we all want 808 boom. Some of us want BETTER than 808.
So what's stopping you from making a kick drum sample yourself that doesn't sound like an 808. Do some round robin samples and you'll get the microscopic "analogue differences" nobody can hear anyway, multisample it and you can give it velocity, no limitations on what you can do to make the bassdrum sound the way you like such as you'll get on a hardwired analogue drum machine...

It's true, 808's aren't that great, in fact I think they're better when you don't spend 3k to buy an actual unit and spend 0$ to find a sample set online so you can pitch them around and get freaky with them. 808 booms are boring, 808 basslines are wicked!
I spent the 90's pushing samples back and forth, no thanks. That is not a process conducive to the free flowing of creativity for me.

I'm not going to go off the cliff detailing how "analogue differences" is not just pitch variations. But to elaborate my original point, which you quote, for me at least most of what a drum machine is about is in the process of making the music.

In other words, the point of a drum machine is to make beats.
Most Daws dont have a Swing function. Quite a lot of them are dicks about repetitive cutting and pasting, such as I would do if I was chopping up samples to make a beat.
Then there is that whole nifty Patterns/Songs paradigm.
I love that.
I screw around making random beats until I fill up a bunch of patterns. Then chain them together to figure out which pattern will be the verse and which will be the ...well the other verse, I hate verse chorus verse chorus c**p!
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Re: Moog Little Phatty Discontinued

Post by Sir Nose » Sat Sep 21, 2013 6:31 pm

Cumulus wrote:I've been making noises about my desire for a Moog drum machine for quite a while.

Sure, it would be a departure for them but what's wrong with that? They could put out a machine that would sound great with a 100% analog soundpath, multiple white noise generators and Moog filters.

You could have complete control over paramters and it could be used to sequence other gear via MIDI and CV.

It would be a revolutionary product for them and I think it woudl sell.
Something like the Metasonix D-1000, but with more parameters and per-step parameter memory.
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Re: Moog Little Phatty Discontinued

Post by tekkentool » Sun Sep 22, 2013 1:26 am

Sorry I know this is OT for the thread but.
calaverasgrande wrote: Most Daws dont have a Swing function.
I actually don't know of a DAW that doesn't have a swing function somewhere. PT, Cubase, Renoise, Reaper, Ableton live, FL studio and Reason will all do it.

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Re: Moog Little Phatty Discontinued

Post by Cumulus » Sun Sep 22, 2013 1:48 am

calaverasgrande wrote:
tekkentool wrote:
Blue Monster 65 wrote:Hmm ... A Moog drum machine would catch my attention!
-Make some drum sounds on your moog
-drop them into a sampler
-Moog drum machine.
missing the point of a drum machine entirely.

I've been posting begs for a moog analog drum machine in every "what should Moog make..." thread I have seen.
It isn't that I think Moog's old synth drums were anything spectacular. More that I think only Moog can get us out of the 808/909 ghetto. Everyone that makes an analog drum machine these days assumes we all want 808 boom. Some of us want BETTER than 808.
Exactly. They could certainly do the 808 thing if they wanted but it could also do a lot more.

I've had my 808 for a few years now and I've only used it on two or three songs. I should sell it at my next garage sale.

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Re: Moog Little Phatty Discontinued

Post by c-level » Sun Sep 22, 2013 2:39 am

Cumulus wrote: I've had my 808 for a few years now and I've only used it on two or three songs. I should sell it at my next garage sale.
who brings 3k to a garage sale? not that i wouldnt like to see an 808 at my next flea but assuming flea pricing...

anyways for those paying attention, moog have been emphasising ANALOG DRUM SOUNDS in their latest video, also in STG's demo video... also their FB has a QOTSA guitarist trying out a new 'something something' so im guessing another foogers in the worx....

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Re: Moog Little Phatty Discontinued

Post by calaverasgrande » Sun Sep 22, 2013 2:54 am

tekkentool wrote:Sorry I know this is OT for the thread but.
calaverasgrande wrote: Most Daws dont have a Swing function.
I actually don't know of a DAW that doesn't have a swing function somewhere. PT, Cubase, Renoise, Reaper, Ableton live, FL studio and Reason will all do it.
for midi of course they have a swing function.
But applying swing to selected audio clips?
Or do I have to buy some sample playback plug in that makes samples respond to midi?
Sorry I used to be mr DAW expert, but I got out of that headspace and just trreat my DAW as a tape machine with undo now. If I sequence anything it's for the crusty old Attack plug in by Waldorf. But I don't think I even installed that one after my last upgrade.
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Re: Moog Little Phatty Discontinued

Post by phesago » Sun Sep 22, 2013 4:10 am

Cumulus wrote: I've had my 808 for a few years now and I've only used it on two or three songs. I should sell it at my next garage sale.
really? I abuse the s**t out of mine. Maybe im deficient in some way :oops:

Anyway, a moog drum machine would be sweet. Something fully featured, full midi implementation, and a bad a*s sequencer. I have always wanted swing per step, and not the entire track. Glide amount per step would be sick too, but that drifst a bit away from drum machine oriented. IDK, if moog did their own little bad a*s drum machine with a busted set of features/flexibility, i would be on that s**t for sure.

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Re: Moog Little Phatty Discontinued

Post by Stab Frenzy » Sun Sep 22, 2013 4:21 am

calaverasgrande wrote:
tekkentool wrote:Sorry I know this is OT for the thread but.
calaverasgrande wrote: Most Daws dont have a Swing function.
I actually don't know of a DAW that doesn't have a swing function somewhere. PT, Cubase, Renoise, Reaper, Ableton live, FL studio and Reason will all do it.
for midi of course they have a swing function.
But applying swing to selected audio clips?
Or do I have to buy some sample playback plug in that makes samples respond to midi?
Sorry I used to be mr DAW expert, but I got out of that headspace and just trreat my DAW as a tape machine with undo now. If I sequence anything it's for the crusty old Attack plug in by Waldorf. But I don't think I even installed that one after my last upgrade.
Live has swing on audio, any other DAW you were using moog drum samples in you'd be using their drum machine device via midi and would put swing on that way.

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Re: Moog Little Phatty Discontinued

Post by tekkentool » Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:18 am

Stab Frenzy wrote: Live has swing on audio
I'm pretty sure you can do that with beat detective as well (I haven't tried it though, I don't use PT that often)

I don't see why you'd need swing on live audio for sequenced drum samples anyway but eh, the option IS there. :)

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Re: Moog Little Phatty Discontinued

Post by kuroichi » Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:38 pm

I've always felt Moog seemed to have more focus on playing rather than sequencing, and I've never thought of them being able to make a good modern drum machine. I'm sure they could make something interesting though if they tried.

However, a static voiced drum machine wouldn't offer much flexibility sound wise, and I think the whole 'decay', 'pitch', 'snappy' scenario on drum voices is just getting really outdated/overused nowadays. They would have to spend a lot of time developing a unique sound/sequencer combo to make the drum machine stand out.

A true drum synthesizer would be interesting, but would require an almost modular level of capability from the voice, and so I imagine it would be extremely pricey. Just think, one voice of slim phatty is a few hundred pounds. You would need about six for a decent drum machine, and they have to be somewhat different to provide for different drum sounds, or extremely versatile.
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Re: Moog Little Phatty Discontinued

Post by calaverasgrande » Mon Sep 23, 2013 3:27 am

anyway the point I was so ineptly trying to make was that a drum machine is piece of hardware and a workflow.
Okay maybe you can find some way to use swing in a DAW. I was just randomly grasping at features. I actually never use swing, if I want a "groove" I'll play the drums myself.

As far as what a theoretical Moog drum synth might look like. Well a noise source with an envelope and filter is a gimme for snare. The kick likewise writes itself.
The cymbals and such are a question mark. And yeah, Moog isn't known for sequencers.
I would not have a hard time imagining an almost deliberately primitive arrangement that stores a limited number of patterns. With an even more limited song construction method.
Though I think the point that their products are kind of intended to be played not programmed is a good one.
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