Korg is on a roll (Little Bits)

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Re: Korg is on a roll..........

Post by Psy_Free » Tue Nov 12, 2013 11:54 pm

bochelli wrote:
zoomtheline wrote:Woah, no has threatened to kill anyone yet, just people expressing opinion, however bonkers they are. You cannot lock a conversation in real life so why here?
As I expected you failed to see the point if korg think this is going to make a real impact in the use of electronics then they are wrong, in a software form I could see a reason for it, young people get easily bored with things today whats new today is history in months in respect of the purpose for such product who exactly is it marketed for ? a studio ? a group? wolfgang flur? gary numan ? or someone who does not know what the h**l to do with it you tell me .
I don't think Korg are necessarily trying to 'make a real impact in the use of electronics' with these.

My kids would love these, so would I. That's two different marketing groups catered for. So Korg can't have got it all wrong can they ?
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Re: Korg is on a roll..........

Post by bochelli » Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:02 am

Psy_Free wrote:
bochelli wrote:
zoomtheline wrote:Woah, no has threatened to kill anyone yet, just people expressing opinion, however bonkers they are. You cannot lock a conversation in real life so why here?
As I expected you failed to see the point if korg think this is going to make a real impact in the use of electronics then they are wrong, in a software form I could see a reason for it, young people get easily bored with things today whats new today is history in months in respect of the purpose for such product who exactly is it marketed for ? a studio ? a group? wolfgang flur? gary numan ? or someone who does not know what the h**l to do with it you tell me .
I don't think Korg are necessarily trying to 'make a real impact in the use of electronics' with these.

My kids would love these, so would I. That's two different marketing groups catered for. So Korg can't have got it all wrong can they ?
How many do they have to sell before they break even I assume they want good sales, how long will this product last till its offered in some other form putting this together in one mini modular with a option to take apart may have been better with a pull out keyboard all aside the concept is nothing new other companies will follow suit they always do
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Re: Korg is on a roll..........

Post by Jabberwalky » Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:05 am

Ha! I wonder what the h**l happened to Mr. Rich then...

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Re: Korg is on a roll..........

Post by zoomtheline » Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:06 am

I don't fail to see the point at all. I do however fail to see your point. And for god sake, start using full stops or even comma's.

Anyway, my friend is a music teacher and deputy head and is already looking into these things for education. So, korg have probably hit the nail on the head. The thing you seem to be miffed about is that you are not the nail korg want to hit.

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Re: Korg is on a roll..........

Post by nathanscribe » Wed Nov 13, 2013 1:01 am

Jabberwalky wrote:Ha! I wonder what the h**l happened to Mr. Rich then...
He locked himself in his island volcano base. Too right, if you ask me. I'm saving up for on myself.

As for the rest of the silliness in this thread, seriously, come on. They look like fun. FUN. And there's nothing wrong with that. Or is there?

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Re: Korg is on a roll..........

Post by Cumulus » Wed Nov 13, 2013 1:25 am

sequentialsoftshock wrote:
Cumulus wrote:
tallowwaters wrote:Just ignore these pretentious bullshit posts. He trolls every thread about new gear extolling the virtues of his various crusty old synths that spend more time getting looked at than played.
Probay the wisest route.

I love my crusty old synths, too, but I love the fact that anolog is now more affordable than ever.
Cumulus agreeing with tallow on something ?! I'm shocked :drums:

I still can't really gather what this ?! Is it actually PCB's that attach to a lego base ? I can't read Japanese and google translate is a POS with Japanese.
It's actually not the first time.

One of us must be an imposter or something.

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Re: Korg is on a roll..........

Post by meatballfulton » Wed Nov 13, 2013 1:43 am

bochelli wrote:if korg think this is going to make a real impact in the use of electronics then they are wrong, in a software form I could see a reason for it <test removed> who exactly is it marketed for ? a studio ? a group? wolfgang flur? gary numan ? or someone who does not know what the h**l to do with it you tell me .
I think bochelli is making a point that you guys are not discussing. There is definitely "mainstream" interest in analog synths today, there are people coming here to VSE posting that they have been working ITB but now want to expand to hardware! That is the opposite of veteran users who went the other way, sold their hardware and went ITB! There is certainly some nostalgia factor in music technology in general...small tube guitar amps are back with a vengeance, numerous plugins that emulate old analog gear and even magnetic tape (let's bring hiss back, I miss it :shock: ), etc .

But where is all this really going?

To anyone born long after the age of vacuum tubes and analog mono synths (i.e. the 1970s...so teenagers, 20 and 30-somethings), their interest might be because they have heard (older) people talking about how the old stuff was better and real knobs is better than mousing. But when they get their new retro gear they find out that VCOs drift, tube amps hum and hiss and that at least some of the sounds they are after require modern gear...bitcrushed wobbles are hard to create on an MG-1, scooped death metal guitar tones can't be made with a Fender Champ, etc.

The real future is probably a fusion of the old and new. Like DSI's half digital/half analog Evolver and Prophet 12, analog monos integrated into DAWs as VSTs, Expert Sleepers software/hardware bypassing MIDI to get high resolution CV control of a modular from inside a DAW and tube guitar amps with onboard DSP effects processing.

"Electronic hobbyists" became all but extinct by the early 80s as kit manufacturers and hobby mag publishers went belly up due to lack of interest. Imagine that, people used to actually build their own televisions, stereo systems, guitar amps and organs from kits or magazine articles! pAiA is the only US music gear kit company that survived; Heathkit, Eico, Knight, SWTP are all gone. Today Arduino and similar technologies have created some interest in DIY electronics again. In Boston (where I live) there is a loose group of DIYers who through social networking started up a weeknight meeting at a public arts space where they have a small shop area stocked with soldering gear, scopes and other tools and parts needed for hacking synth hardware. Maybe this Korg product will tap into that movement, maybe not.

Korg certainly seems to think that the analog trend is long term. So far their long time competitors like Roland and Yamaha have not taken the bait. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

Of possible related interest: go to Klaus Schulze's website to read some interviews where he keeps getting asked about modern electronic music and he mostly dismisses anyone who is trying to do it like he, TD and Kraftwerk did it back in the day. In one interview he likens it to "Dixieland bands", a phenomenon in post WWII US music where (mostly white) musicians chose to deliberately play in the style of young Louis Armstrong and other earlly jazz artists of the 1920s. It was highly controversial at the time as to whether it was just a poor imitation of what was a living and breathing music in the past. He talks about how the EM of the 70s was of it's time, that time is past and musicians should move on and embrace change rather than imitating music without the context it was made in. Read it for yourself and think about it.
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Re: Korg is on a roll..........

Post by Cumulus » Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:02 am

Those are all good points.

I am always in favor of more options. There are tons of new products I have no interest in but I am glad they are the for the folks who want them.

Ardunio is exciting stuff as is circuit bending and all sorts of DIY things out there.

There are aways going to be people looking to the past as well as the future. The real interesting stuff happens when the two meet.

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Re: Korg is on a roll..........

Post by commodorejohn » Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:34 am

bochelli wrote:As I expected you failed to see the point if korg think this is going to make a real impact in the use of electronics then they are wrong, in a software form I could see a reason for it, young people get easily bored with things today whats new today is history in months in respect of the purpose for such product who exactly is it marketed for ? a studio ? a group? wolfgang flur? gary numan ? or someone who does not know what the h**l to do with it you tell me .
It's obvious who they're selling to, they're selling to kids who would be interested in experimenting with knob-twiddling, patching, and general noise-making but don't have thousands to blow on a real modular or even $500+ for a full-fledged "real" semi-modular like the MS-20 Mini. If it works as advertised, that ~$160 starter kit costs less than a lot of kids get in Christmas presents these days and gets you close to the functionality of an MS-20 Mini with more flexible patching. Granted, the MS-20 Mini has labels and a real keyboard, but it also costs $600. For some kid wanting to experiment with synthesizers, it'd be a perfectly adequate and eminently affordable way to start.
meatballfulton wrote:To anyone born long after the age of vacuum tubes and analog mono synths (i.e. the 1970s...so teenagers, 20 and 30-somethings), their interest might be because they have heard (older) people talking about how the old stuff was better and real knobs is better than mousing. But when they get their new retro gear they find out that VCOs drift, tube amps hum and hiss and that at least some of the sounds they are after require modern gear...bitcrushed wobbles are hard to create on an MG-1, scooped death metal guitar tones can't be made with a Fender Champ, etc.

The real future is probably a fusion of the old and new. Like DSI's half digital/half analog Evolver and Prophet 12, analog monos integrated into DAWs as VSTs, Expert Sleepers software/hardware bypassing MIDI to get high resolution CV control of a modular from inside a DAW and tube guitar amps with onboard DSP effects processing.

[...] Of possible related interest: go to Klaus Schulze's website to read some interviews where he keeps getting asked about modern electronic music and he mostly dismisses anyone who is trying to do it like he, TD and Kraftwerk did it back in the day. In one interview he likens it to "Dixieland bands", a phenomenon in post WWII US music where (mostly white) musicians chose to deliberately play in the style of young Louis Armstrong and other earlly jazz artists of the 1920s. It was highly controversial at the time as to whether it was just a poor imitation of what was a living and breathing music in the past. He talks about how the EM of the 70s was of it's time, that time is past and musicians should move on and embrace change rather than imitating music without the context it was made in. Read it for yourself and think about it.
As someone who's in his 20-somethings (not for very long, but still,) my experience has been quite the opposite: the more I move to vintage or retro-vintage gear, the less I find myself desiring the modern stuff I'm leaving behind. Granted, there are exceptions (I still use softsynths for guitar/bass/organ/drums in my compositions because I can't play guitar, bass, or drums and my organ is not MIDIed,) but the more hands-on and direct I get with analog synthesis, the more liberating it is. I can take my MS-20 Mini and just sit down and invent sounds in a very tactile, intuitive way that I just can't with software. Real knobs are better than mousing - I'm not saying this from nostalgia, since I never grew up with this stuff, it's just a simple fact. Virtual analog rarely sounds like the real deal. VCOs drift - so what? That same slight instability is one of the things that gives real analog gear its character, to the extent that VAs and even modern DCO synths have had to deliberately introduce "slop" they otherwise lack in order to capture some of that sound.

The idea that "the real future" is X, Y, or Z stems from the quite frankly false notion that "technological progress" is some kind of linear path with a defined end-goal, like those sci-fi stories where aliens are said to be "more evolved" and therefore inherently superior at everything (and biological evolution doesn't actually work that way, either!) "The real future" is whatever we want it to be for whatever reasons we want it to be that; with all due respect to Klaus Schultze, he's full of s**t. People are making music in the old fashion because people like the sound of the music that was made that way. People are coming back to analog synthesis because people like what it has to offer. It has its own sound because it is its own thing.

Digital synthesizers have their own sound, too, or rather, they did back when they weren't all trying to be either analog or indistinguishably "lifelike" fancy-schmancy physical-modeling. The DX7 and the D-50 had and have things to offer that their analog competitors didn't, which is why they're still beloved today. Modern digital isn't trying to sound digital, it's trying to sound like every other thing in the world but a digital synthesizer, which is why people are losing interest in it.
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Re: Korg is on a roll..........

Post by Hybrid88 » Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:49 am

commodorejohn wrote:...As someone who's in his 20-somethings (not for very long, but still,) my experience has been quite the opposite: the more I move to vintage or retro-vintage gear, the less I find myself desiring the modern stuff I'm leaving behind...
Yeah actually I'm the same, 20-something and yeah I like my modern stuff too but the tone you can get out of the old gear is just incredible.

Like most younger people, I used to be interested in having the latest and greatest of everything, but about 6yrs ago after I got my first old Roland and discovered vintage synths I learnt to appreciate just what these machines of the past could offer. Then decided to look into what else there was in a similar vein, haven't looked back since. :)

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Re: Korg is on a roll..........

Post by sequentialsoftshock » Wed Nov 13, 2013 6:06 am

This board has gotten weeeeird lately. Is mercury still in retrograde or something ?!
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Re: Korg is on a roll..........

Post by nathanscribe » Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:20 am

meatballfulton wrote:Korg certainly seems to think that the analog trend is long term. So far their long time competitors like Roland and Yamaha have not taken the bait. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

Of possible related interest: go to Klaus Schulze's website to read some interviews where he keeps getting asked about modern electronic music and he mostly dismisses anyone who is trying to do it like he, TD and Kraftwerk did it back in the day. In one interview he likens it to "Dixieland bands", a phenomenon in post WWII US music where (mostly white) musicians chose to deliberately play in the style of young Louis Armstrong and other earlly jazz artists of the 1920s. It was highly controversial at the time as to whether it was just a poor imitation of what was a living and breathing music in the past. He talks about how the EM of the 70s was of it's time, that time is past and musicians should move on and embrace change rather than imitating music without the context it was made in. Read it for yourself and think about it.
It's in interesting point, but on the other hand the instruments themselves are not the aspect of the music that is in question in his argument (at least, as you summed it up there) - the point is the music itself. It could be said that trombones are a thing of the past, or harpsichords, or drums. Things that make noise are things that can be used to make music, and I think retro-fetishism in music is (though maybe parallel) something different to wanting to use whatever music-making device takes your fancy.

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Re: Korg is on a roll..........

Post by tekkentool » Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:00 am

Analogue is not inherently retro nor is it inherently old fashioned in regard to sound design. The resurgent success of modular synthesizers as much speaks that people are looking overall more for "different" than they are for specifically retro with new analogue gear.

most of the "retro fetishist" music made now is with modern tools anyway. The "Neo-80's" stuff like kavinsky, power glove, birdy nam nam, MN84, Come truise and what not is mostly done with modern tools anyway.

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Re: Korg is on a roll..........

Post by Cumulus » Wed Nov 13, 2013 1:45 pm

sequentialsoftshock wrote:This board has gotten weeeeird lately. Is mercury still in retrograde or something ?!
Other than me agreeing with Tallow, the rest of it seems the same.

It's still a place where people are complaining about new, affordable analog synths becoming available,

I've spent the last couple of decades wishing someone would produce analogue synths at an affordable price point. Now it's happening and some people are bitching about it.

Enjoy this current analog craze because nothing lasts forever.
Last edited by Cumulus on Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Korg is on a roll..........

Post by meatballfulton » Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:14 pm

Funny stuff happens when I go of my meds :blackeye:
I listened to Hatfield and the North at Rainbow. They were very wonderful and they made my heart a prisoner.

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