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vintage help

Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 8:13 pm
by beethovenrocks
Feel free to re-post me where it's appropriate - this seemed like the best bet!

Would you say the market for vintage synths is going up, down, or even? There are less of them every year (scarcity) but there's also less relevance, as the nostalgic users are ...well, there's less of them every year, too.

What say ye? Buy, sell, or hold?

(First post, thanks in advance for all your comments.)

Re: vintage help

Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:32 pm
by dustinh
Well, considering I could have bought a Jupiter 8 in mint condition in '99 for $2000 and now it would be closer to $5000, prices have been on the rise, big time. I also bought a blue sh-101 in 2001 for $400. I sold it about 4 years ago for twice that.

I think you're quite wrong about nostalgic users. There's a higher demand for the vintage gear, even among the younger people. These synthesizers are legends and with software emulations of many of the classics creates more interest in owning the originals. Aside from nostalgia, the old gear still has it's own unique tone that modern analogs don't really have. They still sound great, just different.

Re: vintage help

Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:44 pm
by Z
It depends. The rarer and more sought after items are holding their value. Low to medium level vintage gear prices are starting to wind down as newer gear that better emulates and/or offers more features than the vintage counterparts are becoming more commonplace.

Re: vintage help

Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:45 pm
by commodorejohn
Yeah, it's not remotely just old guys with nostalgia. I'm 28, I grew up with nothing but my mom's digital piano(s), my first introduction to synthesis was with the Yamaha OPL2 FM chip in the sound card of an old PC, but I've relished the opportunity to get into vintage synthesizers as good deals present themselves.

Re: vintage help

Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:47 pm
by dustinh
And by the way, welcome to the forums :)

Re: vintage help

Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 10:18 pm
by beethovenrocks
Thanks for the quick answers - sounds like it might be time to SELL or maybe not, but a crash of sorts doesn't seem imminent!

Re: vintage help

Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 11:50 pm
by ppg_wavecomputer
"Future is uncertain, and the end is always nigh." (Jim Morrison)

Who can tell what tomorrow holds?

Stephen

Re: vintage help

Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 12:10 am
by CZ Rider
I do not think we will see any type of crash in prices anytime soon. Synthesizers were never overvalued like in some markets, (guitars, muscle-cars, housing) but the opposite where synthesizers were seriously undervalued for years. Synthesizers were very expensive in the 70's. Somehow these musical instruments got lumped in with consumer electronics, where the latest new device makes the old one obsolete and worthless. This was the norm in the late 80' and early 90's where a monophonic synth with no memory/presets was seen by many as an extinct dinosaur from the past. No use and no value. Vintage synthesizer prices are just catching up to where they were when new, and many will never match the asking price when they sold new.
It's kind of funny when you see someone complaining that a Yamaha CS-80 asking price is $15K, and only a collector would pay that much. When the street price was $5600 in '78-'79, that in todays dollars would be around $20K. And that is what everyone paid if you had one back then, musicians not collectors. Very few models actually go for more than the value they cost when new.
I wouldn't worry about prices when all these new and old synthesizers are more affordable now than ever. But the days of finding those $75 classics are fading fast. Ebay was a treasure trove back in 1999-2004. Could find a broken synth for peanuts. Got most of my classics that way.

Re: vintage help

Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 5:40 am
by pelican
Well i don't think prices are going to come down anytime soon, but i do feel older nostalgic people are driving the prices. Except for major polysynths and a few things you can get everything else comparable in modern gear. So much to choose from today better made and better functioning

Re: vintage help

Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 6:53 am
by commodorejohn
pelican wrote:Well i don't think prices are going to come down anytime soon, but i do feel older nostalgic people are driving the prices. Except for major polysynths and a few things you can get everything else comparable in modern gear. So much to choose from today better made and better functioning
Beg pardon? Tell me, where can I get a comparable modern equivalent to my DX7? My D-10? Is there even a chance that I could get a V-Synth plus the VC-1 card at anywhere near the price D-50s go for? "Except for major polysynths" is pretty dang broad, too - aside from shelling out for the DSI polys or the super-pricey Oberheim FVS remake, there's precious little on the market for polyphonic analog, and I want polyphonic analog. Are any of the modern monosynths comparable in sound (not just broad feature set) to, say, a Yamaha CS-15? A Roland SH-7? An OSCar? (Luckily we actually do have a modern equivalent to the MS-20!)

Honestly, not to dismiss the awesomeness and quality of modern gear, but to act like there's no reason other than nostalgia to use vintage equipment is just ridiculous, especially when you have to boil it down to a non-statement like "except for all the things you can't get, you can get everything" to be accurate.

Re: vintage help

Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 8:47 am
by Aaron2
For most of us here, this is a hobby, not an "investment" in the traditional sense. So whether prices rise, fall, or remain the same will simply determine how much vintage gear we'll buy, not whether we'll buy it in the first place. ;)

Except for a few synth models whose value has, in my mind, gone up for no discernible reason at all (like the Roland Juno-6 and -60, most AKAIs from the '80s, etc., the Oberheim Matrix-6, which I still really want), I would say that the vast majority of your '80s synthesizers remain pretty reasonably priced. And the supply of them is fairly ample, which simple economics tells us will keep the price at a reasonable level.

In fact, it's a decent time to be a collector. It isn't the heyday of the '90s when analogs were dirt cheap (or so I've heard -- I had zero interest in synthesizers back then). But perhaps due to a less-than-ideal economy, a lot of people need money and view keeping up a huge stable of analog synths to be a luxury they can no longer afford. Those analogs they bought in the '90s for peanuts are now worth some cash, so the time to sell them is now. As a result, the machines are there, waiting to be had.

But in the end, if you love them, it doesn't matter whether the prices are going up or down. Who cares. Play 'em, enjoy 'em, debate their merits endlessly, whatever makes you happy. That's what they're there for.

Re: vintage help

Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 9:56 pm
by CfNorENa
dustinh wrote:Well, considering I could have bought a Jupiter 8 in mint condition in '99 for $2000 and now it would be closer to $5000, prices have been on the rise, big time.
Mint JP8 for $5000? That would sell in 20 minutes. I'm thinking closer to $7K these days...

Re: vintage help

Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 11:29 pm
by vcs3
It depends what is a vintage!
Is a JV-1080 a vintage? Yes, according to VSE, but the prices are going down and it's a ROMpler.
but a Teisco 110F is also vintage but the prices are rising.

So what is the concept of vintage synth?:

Out of production is enough?
Good sound ?
Rare or very rare?
Make until year 19XX?
Analogue or digital with DCOs, no ROMplers allowed?

I made this question when I saw another synth labelled as ... vintage.

P.S.- My blog is synhtprices not vintagesynthprices :-)

Re: vintage help

Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 1:33 am
by CfNorENa
CfNorENa wrote:
dustinh wrote:Well, considering I could have bought a Jupiter 8 in mint condition in '99 for $2000 and now it would be closer to $5000, prices have been on the rise, big time.
Mint JP8 for $5000? That would sell in 20 minutes. I'm thinking closer to $7K these days...
One just sold on eBay for $9400. :o

Re: vintage help

Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 3:55 am
by dustinh
CfNorENa wrote:
CfNorENa wrote:
dustinh wrote:Well, considering I could have bought a Jupiter 8 in mint condition in '99 for $2000 and now it would be closer to $5000, prices have been on the rise, big time.
Mint JP8 for $5000? That would sell in 20 minutes. I'm thinking closer to $7K these days...
One just sold on eBay for $9400. :o
Damn! See? I can't even keep up with the inflation on that one.