New stuff from Roland!

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meatballfulton
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Re: New stuff from Roland!

Post by meatballfulton » Sat Feb 08, 2014 3:54 pm

Darkseid wrote:No pitch or mod wheel on the keyboard?? :?
Roland always uses that weird bender thing anyway, but this System 1 looks like it has some sort of Alpha Dial style controller instead.

Nick at Sonic State has posted that a TR8 and TB3 will be in his hands this week and he will have videos ready to go for release on the 15th after Roland makes their official announcement.

Too bad I'll be out of town and net-free all weekend gigging :guitar:
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Re: New stuff from Roland!

Post by tallowwaters » Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:39 am

Let's try this again.
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Re: New stuff from Roland!

Post by sequentialsoftshock » Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:59 am

I was upset that it didn't come with a toaster, but I just saw an online dealer is giving one away with it !!

Oh wait. Sorry, wrong item. Dude, the TR8. Can't wait to see what it is. I've long thought it would be really cool to do a VA drumsynth with a TR interface. Preferably more like the 606, 808, 909, and less like the 505 or 707. Unless you like those, because then that's perfect. But if you don't then the 808 style is perfect.



DISCLAIMER: I have not read through the past 24 pages of mostly criticisms, I am just going off what little info I have seen on Roland's site.

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Re: New stuff from Roland!

Post by Automatic Gainsay » Tue Feb 11, 2014 4:25 am

Synthesis is dead. LONG LIVE MARKETING
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Re: New stuff from Roland!

Post by Kidney05 » Tue Feb 11, 2014 5:19 am

I dont' know about you guys, but I'm getting pretty excited. If they sound good and have a good price, they will be awesome. I don't have anything like the Vocal Transformer, but I'm definitely curious to hear what it's about. Flipping between different roland drum machines could be really fun on the TR-8. The TB-3 looks like something out of Tron, which is also awesome. I'm willing to get excited for Roland, and to ditch cynicism.

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Re: New stuff from Roland!

Post by volumetrik » Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:50 am

silikon wrote:Honestly, there should be little reason for concern whether it's an emulation or analogue.

When it all comes down to it, you're making music. If you're that caught up in how the music is generated, I'd say you're likely concerned with the wrong things. It's a shame that people can't get past some supposed inferiority of a digital machine; I often struggle to see how being an analogue purist would enhance ones output. That whole argument is a complete non sequitur in my opinion.

I say instead we see what fleshes out with this new offering and judge it on reasonable metrics like "does it produce interesting sounds?" and "is the interface such that it inspires?", versus "aw, it's digital, therefore it must be shite".

I'm certainly no Roland cheerleader, but I personally prefer to audition a machine first hand irregardless of underlying architecture and judge based on metrics that actually relate to producing music.
I agree with your points and I think that if you took a total newbie who has never had first hand experience with a real 303 that person may as we'll go on to make music with without worrying.

But if you take someone who has used a real 303 for years, it being analog is critically important to deliver the goods.

VA has a not so good reputation, and they are using it here on a historically analog device!

Things like latency, aliasing issues are going to be a problem unless they really managed to get this right, they are saying this is an authentic recreation, things like that liquid filter sweep response have to be spot on. We shall see.

This is likely to be a success with a new generation.

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Re: New stuff from Roland!

Post by nathanscribe » Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:20 am

I wonder if we'd have had 20 pages of the same responses if these boxed had come out two years ago and/or had "Korg" written on them.

Kind of intrigued by the TB-3, which looks like a flat touchscreen interface from that enhanced pic.

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Re: New stuff from Roland!

Post by commodorejohn » Tue Feb 11, 2014 7:34 pm

nathanscribe wrote:I wonder if we'd have had 20 pages of the same responses if these boxed had come out two years ago and/or had "Korg" written on them.
Does it matter? It's not two years ago anymore. The myth that real analog has to be expensive and unreliable is pretty well busted, there's a revival in full swing, and more and more companies are getting into it. We're simply no longer in the same context as we were back then.

Anyway, I'm still wondering what the price is going to be on these things.
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Re: New stuff from Roland!

Post by synthroom » Tue Feb 11, 2014 9:39 pm

I'm all for Virtual Analog synths, and as time goes, there will be NO difference as they will be able to model whatever discrete circuitry they desire.

I'm kind of surprised they haven't gotten closer on the circuit modelling aspect - with the multi-CPUs and gigahertz of clock cycles available these day... Perhaps this is that point in time?
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Re: New stuff from Roland!

Post by nathanscribe » Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:17 pm

commodorejohn wrote:
nathanscribe wrote:I wonder if we'd have had 20 pages of the same responses if these boxed had come out two years ago and/or had "Korg" written on them.
Does it matter? It's not two years ago anymore. The myth that real analog has to be expensive and unreliable is pretty well busted, there's a revival in full swing, and more and more companies are getting into it. We're simply no longer in the same context as we were back then.
No of course it doesn't. I was just wondering how much of these responses are based on expectations about the kit purely for what it looks like it might be like, and how much on it being Roland, and now. Also there's a whole load of non-analogue still being made, though affordable analogue as you rightly point out has got a foothold. And it's cheaper than ever before, certainly.

I don't expect Roland to get in on that game though. Even their Boss-branded distortion pedals are digital models of analogue classics. Cost seems not to be the factor for Roland. It's just the way they seem to be doing things. Some will like it, some won't, some will care, some won't, some will buy it, or not, and make both interesting and dull music with it, or whatever they like. If Roland sell lots of these, fair play. I'm keeping an eye out for the prices and specs, anyway.

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Re: New stuff from Roland!

Post by StepLogik » Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:33 am

commodorejohn wrote:.
Anyway, I'm still wondering what the price is going to be on these things.
High. There is a lot of wishful thinking about "un-roland-like pricing" due to some media speculation/rumors but I can all but assure you that will not be the case.

Just look at the hardware.

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Re: New stuff from Roland!

Post by Aaron2 » Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:55 am

StepLogik wrote:
commodorejohn wrote:.
Anyway, I'm still wondering what the price is going to be on these things.
High. There is a lot of wishful thinking about "un-roland-like pricing" due to some media speculation/rumors but I can all but assure you that will not be the case.

Just look at the hardware.
I tend to agree. These machines aren't Volcas.

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Re: New stuff from Roland!

Post by Automatic Gainsay » Wed Feb 12, 2014 1:04 am

Aaron2 wrote:
StepLogik wrote:
commodorejohn wrote:.
Anyway, I'm still wondering what the price is going to be on these things.
High. There is a lot of wishful thinking about "un-roland-like pricing" due to some media speculation/rumors but I can all but assure you that will not be the case.

Just look at the hardware.
I tend to agree. These machines aren't Volcas.

...and... they won't sell like Volcas.
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Re: New stuff from Roland!

Post by volumetrik » Wed Feb 12, 2014 1:30 am

synthroom wrote:I'm all for Virtual Analog synths, and as time goes, there will be NO difference as they will be able to model whatever discrete circuitry they desire.

I'm kind of surprised they haven't gotten closer on the circuit modelling aspect - with the multi-CPUs and gigahertz of clock cycles available these day... Perhaps this is that point in time?
There does not exist in science a mathematical model of exactly what happens to an electric current when it enters into a ladder filter. Until someone figures that out, there's literaly no way to make an accurate digital representation of an analog synth.

What we have now is essnetially a pencil line drawing drawing of the whole analog waveform photograph. We can only compute so many overtones of the wave, so we digitally recreate the obvious ones, still not knowing what the majority of them are.

The ladder filter, as much a work of art as a feat of engineering, is still only ONE example of why digital doesn't sound like analog. Even if we had a mathematical model of it you really think our current computers are strong enough to process such a complex model, that in 2013 hasn't been cracked yet? It's likely to be a HUGELY complex algorithm, it would need a super computer to computer, and that's only the filter.
I don't think digital synths will EVER approach the warmth of analog. Probably around the time quantum computers start showing up in 30 years or so we will have analog sounding softsynths, and a quantum computer running an analog synth program would essentially BE an variable state analog synth.

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Re: New stuff from Roland!

Post by Ashe37 » Wed Feb 12, 2014 1:41 am

volumetrik wrote:
There does not exist in science a mathematical model of exactly what happens to an electric current when it enters into a ladder filter. Until someone figures that out, there's literaly no way to make an accurate digital representation of an analog synth.

Hate to say this, but if you buy that, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I can sell cheap. There is a mathematical model for the ladder filter, and they know exactly what goes on at each stage. If there wasn't, then the filter could not be used to create predictable results when controlled by a digital processor. You definitely couldn't turn off and on poles on a 4-pole ladder filter (the Sub Phatty and Sub37 can both do this) because doing so would yield unpredictable results. I can put a ladder filter schematic into PCB simulation software and get an accurate simulation of the function and response of said filter, including errors in tuning (because you put in the tolerance on each component and it simulates the variation in tolerance) and the need to calibrate the filter. All of this can be done on most modern CPUs- its just most synth makers don't want to put a $300+ CPU into their products, they would rather put in a $20 ARM processor and a $10 DSP.

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