Korg to release ARP Odyssey

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Hybrid88
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Re: Korg to release ARP Odyssey

Post by Hybrid88 » Thu Jun 18, 2015 6:24 pm

pflosi wrote:
Hybrid88 wrote:low volume modular manufacturers
Well that's where the quality is at :mrgreen:
Yep, I'd say you're right there :)

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Re: Korg to release ARP Odyssey

Post by Stab Frenzy » Fri Jun 19, 2015 3:01 am

Hybrid88 wrote:
Automatic Gainsay wrote:At Gearfest, I saw Dave Smith mock everyone who is concerned about surface-mount technology, and watched Tom Oberheim and Roger Linn laugh along.
After that, I kind of want to never hear about it again.
Ok, it's probably pretty pointless trying to argue about it, you guys all seem to know everything already. But the fact is if you take something in to be repaired that is SMD construction the tech will most likely not be able to do a component level fix. Let along a diagnosis. I don't know about you but I'd rather replace one component than a whole PCB.

Sure there's a warranty on most stuff now...

SMD is pretty reliable, but when it does fail it will brick a synth.
This is a bit of a fallacy, the thing here is that SMT makes building PCBs much cheaper than it costs to have a tech faultfind, diagnose and replace a part, so companies will just replace the board which has the issue rather than fix the board. This doesn't mean the board can't be fixed! Desoldering SMDs is actually quite easy (well discrete devices anyway, BGAs are a different story, but they don't really have a through hole equivalent anyway) if you have the right tools, provided the board is laid out in a way where you can get the thing which needs to be replaced.

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Re: Korg to release ARP Odyssey

Post by Hybrid88 » Fri Jun 19, 2015 10:59 am

^ Well it's like anything, it might be possible with a lot of effort but practically in the real world is another matter.

Most techs I can think of are getting older, and just won't touch it. Also the lead-free solder makes it even harder. I don't know, I guess they are improvements of the actual manufacture process of the product but it does make things harder for the hobbyist.

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Re: Korg to release ARP Odyssey

Post by Stab Frenzy » Fri Jun 19, 2015 5:33 pm

Hybrid88 wrote:^ Well it's like anything, it might be possible with a lot of effort but practically in the real world is another matter.

Most techs I can think of are getting older, and just won't touch it. Also the lead-free solder makes it even harder. I don't know, I guess they are improvements of the actual manufacture process of the product but it does make things harder for the hobbyist.
You misunderstood what I said, it's easier to replace an SMT resistor than a through hole one. Same for caps, most transistors etc.

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Re: Korg to release ARP Odyssey

Post by Hybrid88 » Fri Jun 19, 2015 5:40 pm

Stab Frenzy wrote:
Hybrid88 wrote:^ Well it's like anything, it might be possible with a lot of effort but practically in the real world is another matter.

Most techs I can think of are getting older, and just won't touch it. Also the lead-free solder makes it even harder. I don't know, I guess they are improvements of the actual manufacture process of the product but it does make things harder for the hobbyist.
You misunderstood what I said, it's easier to replace an SMT resistor than a through hole one. Same for caps, most transistors etc.
What? I'd have to definitely disagree there. You're dealing with something the size of a grain of rice, with no mechanical strength without solder, it's fiddly at best. Then theres the increased chance of tiny solder bridges because of the circuit density (even seeing those is difficult, let alone finding them) add to that the fact that it will be using lead free solder... not what I'd call easier.

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Re: Korg to release ARP Odyssey

Post by Reginator » Tue Jun 23, 2015 2:13 am

Following up on a post I made a few pages ago, I received a response from Korg regarding PPC vibrato:

"I heard back from the development team and unlike the original Odyssey, the PPC vibrato on the new Odyssey is not added to CV out.

Unfortunately, we do not have schematics to provide or can authorize or encourage users to open the product and make modifications."

Yes, I asked for schematics so I could mod it myself if they couldn't/wouldn't. ;)

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Re: Korg to release ARP Odyssey

Post by Stab Frenzy » Tue Jun 23, 2015 3:29 am

Hybrid88 wrote:You're dealing with something the size of a grain of rice, with no mechanical strength without solder
Exactly, just pick it up with a pair of these:

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Re: Korg to release ARP Odyssey

Post by Broadwave » Tue Jun 23, 2015 9:11 am

I've never had a problem resoldering or building with SMDs. I agree that if the components happen to be face up on the PCB, it is considerably easier to work with than thru hole.

@Reginator - It shouldn't be too difficult to find the Mod out from the PPC section - Korg claim that they used the original circuits, so it could be possible to trace from the original ARP Odyssey circuits.

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Re: Korg to release ARP Odyssey

Post by Hybrid88 » Tue Jun 23, 2015 10:43 am

ha whatever, you guys must have 20/20 vision then ;)

I've always found SMD mega fiddly, and through hole very straightforward, anyway I'm not going to go on about it, we can agree to differ.

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Re: Korg to release ARP Odyssey

Post by Reginator » Tue Jun 23, 2015 11:51 am

Hey Broadwave, I'll give it a shot. I have the scanned PPC installation docs and it should be easy if they used the original circuit design. My fear is the CV and LFO might be generated by some other means and the PPC sends signals to vary that operation instead of the CV going thru the PPC.

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Re: Korg to release ARP Odyssey

Post by Bitexion » Wed Jun 24, 2015 8:53 am

I'll just pull up Marc's latest Kodyssey video series on youtube here




Pull up...cod..geddit? 8-)

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Re: Korg to release ARP Odyssey

Post by zmd » Sat Jun 27, 2015 4:31 am

So the ring modulator is digital? Sont get me wrong, I don't care, but I'm surprised based on the age!
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Re: Korg to release ARP Odyssey

Post by commodorejohn » Sat Jun 27, 2015 4:53 am

zmd wrote:So the ring modulator is digital? Sont get me wrong, I don't care, but I'm surprised based on the age!
Well, digital logic is older than even the early modulars. And it wasn't used much in analog synthesizers, but for a budget-conscious monosynth it makes sense, since you can implement a ring-modulation between two pulse waves with a single exclusive-OR gate.
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Re: Korg to release ARP Odyssey

Post by Stab Frenzy » Sat Jun 27, 2015 6:13 am

I believe digital logic is used in the Wasp filter too, and it's a basic building block of all analogue sequencers. A flip flop also makes a very simple suboscillator, I'm sure people can point out which synths used one. The lines aren't really as sharp as they're sometimes made out to be, in all these applications the digital circuitry is being used to process an analogue signal, and the analogue output of the digital circuit is used rather than the digital circuitry being a representative of something else which is reconstructed with a DAC.

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Re: Korg to release ARP Odyssey

Post by vinyl_junkie » Sat Jun 27, 2015 10:03 am

The argument against SMT is ridiculous, if people aren't willing to touch it it's because they are some stubborn old idiot sutck in the past, the same kind who won't install a card machine in his shop cos it's still the 70's in his mind.

Get with the times! SMT is here to stay whether you like it or not.
Once you know what you're doing it's easy.. EASSSY. May be not easy for a amateur but a skilled professional can do it without breaking a sweat.
Place I used to work at did board level repairs and we did a lot of BJA work too, now that is way more tricky and time consuming than a SMT resistor or IC removal.

Here is a pic of a diode I recently replaced on a Behringer EM-600 pedal that wouldn't power up any more... Scavenged the diode from something else in the house that was broken and replaced it using just a normal soldering iron. Impossible fixing this SMT stuff I'm telling you, throw away totally :roll:
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